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Post by riderleeds on Oct 17, 2012 9:10:32 GMT
Thanks for this it's a very interesting read  Just when I spoke to a guy at dodge50.co.uk he seems to think there were only mk1 & mk2's so thanks for shedding light on this, I remember the park and ride ones operating from Charlotte road, when I worked at Greenland I remember a few going for scrap (205 etc rings a bell) and many a time been given a lift home on a scud 150 has been converted to disk by Thanet valley, and surprisingly not I'm leaving it like that! As heard similar stories to yours re brakes been poor 150 hasn't got a retarder & it went to the police in 1994 (still under mainline ownership) so it may have escaped having one fitted or its been removed Once again thank you for the above its very knowledgable stuff |
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Post by duncan on Oct 17, 2012 10:11:11 GMT
I always wanted a scud, sadly no more, fond memories of when they stopped at bus stops when nearly new, the front bonnet came down P.s wasn't the G regs mk2's?? Really loving this history guys, keep it up Dodge S56 101-189 Mk1s Dodge S56 190-219 Mk2s Dodge S56 220-239 Mk2 (Northern Counties) Dodge S56 240-254 Mk2 (ex Lincoln) Renault S56 301-344 Mk3 Renault S56 345-350 Mk3 (H-reg) Renault S56 351-389 Mk4 The first lot of Dodges had no retarder and Torqueflight gearboxes which resulted in barely a weeks use out of a set of brakes. Some got modified and some got sold on. The Mk2s came with Allison boxes and revamped cowlings. Upgrades of gearboxes/brakes and other componants came with each mark. 388/389 were delivered with the n/s seats facing inwards to create more standing room with the 52s in mind, but the 52s got converted to B10Ms as they were delivered. Some of 190-219 were also modified for use on Park and Ride dutys operating out of the closed East Bank depot before being put to store. At least 199/203/204 were reinstated at Greenland in 1996 with reduced seating capacity. If you got out of a Mk3 and jumped in the odd Mk2 lingering on by 1996 you stained the cab seat on realising that there was no retarder-they didnt stop where you expected them too. I remember well the S56's we had at Go-Ahead, ours had Alexander bodywork and we very quickly found a retarder and fitted it to them as the ability to stop is often felt desireable! I remember taking one to Sandtoft Gathering when it was a big event and it certainly turned heads. They lasted quite well compared to some types and saw off the older mercedes vehicles (18 months old) and transits, (2 years old). One still exists locally in Grindleford where it is in use as a moble chippy! |
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Post by duncan on Oct 17, 2012 10:14:52 GMT
And a shot of the "chip shop" - 269
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Post by riderleeds on Oct 17, 2012 11:28:29 GMT
wow fantastic duncan thanks for sharing! - anyhow i dont want to hijac this thread anymore, so anyone who is on facebook can now follow 150`s progress here www.facebook.com/D150Rak?ref=hl#!/D150Rak |
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Post by The Captain on Oct 17, 2012 15:15:57 GMT
Slightly veering off topic, but Rotherham had a very small batch of ex London Wright bodied Renault S75s (long wheelbase) and these did not stop at all-which wasnt a problem as they couldnt go up hills either. Went for scrap in shiny paint.
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ateam
Inspector
"I love it when a plan comes together"
Posts: 876
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Post by ateam on Oct 17, 2012 17:07:44 GMT
Dodge S56 101-189 Mk1s Dodge S56 190-219 Mk2s Dodge S56 220-239 Mk2 (Northern Counties) Dodge S56 240-254 Mk2 (ex Lincoln) Renault S56 301-344 Mk3 Renault S56 345-350 Mk3 (H-reg) Renault S56 351-389 Mk4 Didnt know 301-350 and 351-389 were different variants.. always thought they were the same, looked the same from the outside at least. Always a riot sat at the back of one of them heading down the billiard-table smoothness of Dykes Hall Road on a 13/14.. bouncy bouncy! |
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sweb
Driver
Posts: 383
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Post by sweb on Oct 17, 2012 20:14:40 GMT
If you think Dykes Hall was bouncy imagine them on the 61/62
High Bradfield down to Damflask was a particularly bouncy stretch!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2012 20:21:21 GMT
The first two months of 1989 were concerned with the implementation of 'Unit 52' as it was called at the time. Over 500 people applied for the 120 jobs on offer. The T&G, and some of the management wanted the whole package to fail. In addition to the driving staff, the unit was to have its own engineering function and control. To manage this ensamble, a member of SYT's current crop of Inspectors was required to head up the unit. The first Route manager at SYT was Mick Robertson.
At the same time, the first 'big bus' route to be given the unit treatment was selected. This was to be the 81 group from Herries. There had been a slight change to the boundaries for core services and the aim was now to improve the service, whilst reducing the PVR. Whilst work continued on the timetable and frequency, branding and liveries were put on the back burner.
The PTE had always managed to underspend its budget for tendered services. In the main, the PTE used this remaining money was used to augment frequencies. To explain, let's look at service 27. This service was moved from Leadmill to Halfway at de-reg and was currently running on a thirty minute frequency. Traditionally, in Sheffield, the Saturday frequency was always higher off peak than on a weekday. The PTE could add additional journeys to commercial services if they found that a social need was being met. In the case of service 27, the PTE found that they would like a frequency of three buses per hour. SYT didn't wish to increase the service, so the resulting tender was for an extra bus per hour. In this case, it was won by S&D. That lead to an uneven frequency (buses at 00, 20, 30) and destroyed the commercial aspects of the service.
SYT had planned to make major changes to the Sheffield - Maltby group of services. The PTE, who the company had worked with on the new network, decided that they wished to put out an augmentation tender on top. Wigmores/NBC won the tender and SYT went to court to prevent this from happenning.
Wigmores and Wilfreda Beehive were now evolving into fresh competitors for SYT. This was proving to be a worry. Over ten operators were competing for each tender. SYT had to find a low cost operator to compete.
March 1989 was the launch date for the new 'Eager Beavers' service on service 52. The same advertisnig agency that had worked on the Bee Line identity in Manchester provided the graphics and advertising package, and those annoying blue carrier bags that rubbed off on your hands!
It was an instant success, and within a few months S&D and SUT had gone from the route. Terrier was going to be a bigger fish to fry, but the fire fighting had stopped and growth was on the agenda.
Matters turned to the new Unit 81 branding and livery. Initially, a brown/red/cream version of the Eager Beavers livery was proposed together with a blue/red/white version. Both were displayed at Amos Road in the April of 1989 - if you've got photos, they'll be rare!
To be honest, they were pretty naff designs. So, SYT turned to Ray Stenning, who was just breaking into the design world with Best Impressions. Ray provided ten versions of liveries ranging form a re-work of the SYT livery in various shades of brown to the familiar red and yellow. he also produced the fleetname, but didn't provide and of the marketing material.
Mainline was to be an all encompassing brand fro each area. The livery was to be the same for each district, with just the name changing. Unfortunately, SYT's shareholders vetoed the idea and some petty minded individuals wouldn't travel on a red and yellow bus, on principle. The union was more enthusiastic as it involved customer service training and individual 'boards' taking the worst work away from this unit.
The new frequency was based at 7/8 to Hillsborough Corner. On reflection, this was to low and additional resources and timetable changes were made in September 1989 to rectify the situation. The problems were more acute on the Middlewood section.
The buses to be used were ten year old Atlanteans. This was based on the assumption that when resources became available for new vehicles, Mainline services would be top of the list.
Service changes were launched on a Sunday in Sheffield, but the marketers wanted to launch it on a Monday. The Monday was a bank holiday, so the launch went to the Tuesday, so for the first two days, normal SYT liveried buses were used instead.
The Tram project was also coming to a head and SYT were very keen to consolidate the network and company's operating in the county. Things were getting better, it was time to move forward.
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Post by dougie on Oct 17, 2012 21:27:30 GMT
I'm really enjoying these tales - it may surprise some to hear of competition on some routes that now cannot justify any commercial service - it's nicely poised at the moment (of the latest update) where SYT had started to fight back from the territory lost to the "upstarts".
I'll stay tuned for the next instalment!
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Post by riderleeds on Oct 18, 2012 12:22:52 GMT
i remember when i was a lad going to herries and been given a photograph of 2 alexander voiths in red white and blue stripes (like eager beaver) can i find it anywere? ... no!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2012 19:50:22 GMT
The opportunity arose during May 1989 to make further economies on the resources front. Rotherham engineering was still underperforming and the garage was costing a fortune to maintain and operate. A parcel of land had become vacant at an old Vauxhall garage near the town centre. NFC was potentially interested in purchasing the garage and spent some time surveying the location and making plans. The whole Rotherham allocation would not fit onto the parcel of land, so, part of the allocation would move to Greenland. In the event, NFC decided against the proposal and the plan faltered again.
Richardson's had been an established brand in the Sheffield area for a number of years, mainly providing local contract services as well as the stage carriage service to Manchester Airport. After de-reg it had expanded as was now responsible for some minor tendered work and contracts. In addition, some of the staff members were of interest as they had a coaching background and SYT's own coaching unit, Coachline, was also in need of some surgery.
None of the Richardson stock was purchased, instead the company bought some Tigers to operate the Airport service (not long after the engineers had got rid of nearly all the Leopard's!) and two former London Country National's to oerate the Thorpe Hesley and Blackburn routes. This was the catalyst for the second phase of the SYT recovery plan - consolidation.
SUT had been part of the ATL empire and this had been purchased by National Express. The group had included some potentially good bus company's, but at this time, NX weren't interested in buses. S&D had been working, secretly, with SYT during the summer of 1989 to reduce competition and share some resources. The Compass operation had been hurting West Riding on home turf, so the deal was on for a swap. S&D would be acquired but the Lynx's would be returned, replaced by National's from Wakefield and YTC. The final piece of the pie came via a different route.
Sheafline had been over ambitious. They had expanded further with some tendered work, but they were in need of investment. The looked to another expanding group, Drawlane, who were into heavy expansion. They viewed the operation with interest, and sent a number of Atlantean's to Sheffield from the main fleet. They even went to the trouble of painting them in Sheafline livery. Unfortunately, before the deal could be done, the TC caught up with their poor engineering performance (they hadn't got a Chief Engineer or any record system) and revoked their licence. SYT's directors were on site in Leeds and rapidly concluded a deal to purchase.
It was a manic couple of months which had seen the majority of the competition wrapped up. This was all loaded into a company called Hallamshire Bus, which the local newspaper took great delight in revealing to its readership.
The plan was that the SUT brand would be kept for tendered services and Sheafline would have been used to operate marginal services that SYT would ditch from high to low cost. In the event, the SUT brand never got beyond a couple of vehicles and Sheafline became the dominant brand. Sheafline was also to be used to compete, internally, with SYT. This would keep other competitors away.
During this time, fearing an attack from Drawlane, various managers were dispatched to the four corners of their empire to assess if a competitive situation could develop to dissuade them from coming near the county. The conclusion was that Crawley and Liverpool would be good territory, but the plan was stillborn.
Terrier had moved onto the 13/14 and 25 in Sheffield and this was to be the next focus for the Mainline and Eager Beaver brands, competing on services 13/14/92 and 93. The old SYT would have done little, the new dynamic company was into the fight.
The pattern was set for the rest of the year. More Mainline and Beaver schemes came on stream, but the big problem was that the MMC had taken an interest in the business and had conlcuded that the new acquisitions should be disposed of. The fight was on.
The company reported a profit for 88/9 of £2.5 million and was to stay in profit for the next three years.
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Post by The Captain on Oct 18, 2012 20:27:04 GMT
The Drawlane manager tasked with looking at Sheafline was suitably miffed that the Sheafline managers had sold out to SYT and looked to use the observations and information gained whilst in Sheffield. Partnered up with a Schedular from Cumberland, traffic manager from Midland Fox and an engineering manager from Leicester Citybus he formed Sheffield Omnibus and used his contacts to purchase 2 batchs of 33ft Atlanteans from Preston and a handfull of ex GM standard Atlanteans in use with Hyndburn. Staff came in 3 groups: disillusioned Yorkshire Traction staff that saw the depot at Ecclesfield and the wages as being a better bet. SYT drivers who fancied a change or a challenge, and most of what was Sheafline Tinsleys engineering staff which had just been made redundant on SYT shutting the depot to merge with SUT at Charlotte Rd, Some of these staff were originally from Sheffield & District and had brought in the know how to keep maintenance and the records up to date and in keeping with the Ministrys standards at Sheafline and so answered the well known Maintenance issues. The first move was the busy 76 from Ecclesfield to City and rapidly moved on to the 72 High Green which Groves/Rotherham & District had been nibbling at. A further batch of newer short wheelbase AN68s from the bought out Portsmouth Citybus arrived as well. More expansion saw the 53/63/74s and the 47/48s on the Shiregreen end in the evenings which saw battles between Greenland night drivers using B10Ms chasing about the Omnibus 47/48s which got to the point where both lots were swapping routes to either 75/76 at Firth Park or even 53s in City with a GR B10M still chasing about, the plus point being that GR drivers would not take B10Ms over the hump back bridge at Heeley Bottom in fear of ripping the coolant pump off (it ended up being an Omnibus driver in a B10M that did that!). To keep the fleet respectable and drivers happy a new loan bus would appear every so often such as a Lynx or a Lance/B10B, then 3 Mainline style B10Ms but with ZF boxes appeared-also a depot at Chesterfield to run more vehicles out on more routes under a different license such as 21 to Stocksbridge or a 17 clone (18) this started with loaned South Riding Nationals and a batch of ex Brighton AN68s (coincidence that Terrier bought a batch of Brighton Nationals at the same time too?). Thats when cracks started to appear there too.
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Post by westy20040 on Oct 18, 2012 23:10:31 GMT
This is a fantastic read, please keep it going |
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Post by atlantean on Oct 19, 2012 22:49:33 GMT
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