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Post by alemaster on Sept 14, 2023 17:33:03 GMT
TM Travel do seem to be struggling to get enough buses out and there are regular reports of the 76a and M17 among other failing to operate. Today looking at bustimes.org only one round trip operated on the M17 all day - the 13:40 Jordanthorpe to Dore and 14:10 return - the 09:40, 10:40, 11:40, 12:40 and 17:15 all have no reports of running. bustimes.org/services/m17-dore-bradway-jordanthorpe-2/vehiclesBustimes is not a reliable source of whether a journey has operated or not. If the bus is not showing on bustimes.org and has operated then the bus company has failed in their legal obligation to supply the data to such customer facing systems, if the likes of TM are regular offenders then time for them to be prosecuted, they are letting down the travelling public. |
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Post by vrman on Sept 16, 2023 10:33:08 GMT
TM Travel do seem to be struggling to get enough buses out and there are regular reports of the 76a and M17 among other failing to operate. Today looking at bustimes.org only one round trip operated on the M17 all day - the 13:40 Jordanthorpe to Dore and 14:10 return - the 09:40, 10:40, 11:40, 12:40 and 17:15 all have no reports of running. bustimes.org/services/m17-dore-bradway-jordanthorpe-2/vehiclesDriver shortage. It's not helping by existing drivers telling customers on such as the 9 that they are missing because of ULEZ and a lack of compliant vehicles. The ex Lothian E400s are looking like a great purchase. Not. Assume many teething problems? I tend to pass at least a couple of 218s a day during the week and still seem to be a lot of scanias getting on there Surely B9’s from the same source with mods as first have done was the way to go |
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Post by crossscythe on Sept 16, 2023 10:38:51 GMT
Driver shortage. It's not helping by existing drivers telling customers on such as the 9 that they are missing because of ULEZ and a lack of compliant vehicles. The ex Lothian E400s are looking like a great purchase. Not. Assume many teething problems? I tend to pass at least a couple of 218s a day during the week and still seem to be a lot of scanias getting on there Surely B9’s from the same source with mods as first have done was the way to go It's a shame they aren't allowed to operate the Alexander RHs anymore, sigh. I have said it before but TM (Wellglade) should have a look on the Ensign website and get themselves some Streetlites. |
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Post by alemaster on Sept 20, 2023 11:57:26 GMT
Driver shortage. It's not helping by existing drivers telling customers on such as the 9 that they are missing because of ULEZ and a lack of compliant vehicles. The ex Lothian E400s are looking like a great purchase. Not. Assume many teething problems? I tend to pass at least a couple of 218s a day during the week and still seem to be a lot of scanias getting on there Surely B9’s from the same source with mods as first have done was the way to go I thought the issues causing trips to be cancelled was more a driver shortage rather than fleet issues? |
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Post by bususer on Sept 25, 2023 14:22:14 GMT
Sorry my views on this are quite firm, if that many 76a's are cancelled, then £1000 fine per run missed, enforced by the traffic commissioner. And once a fine has been issued, any company is prevented from withdrawing the service by the T/C until they show they can run it properly. That would stop this very poor behaviour very quickly. I know some of you may disagree with me and that's okay, but we need to get some discipline back into this industry as at the moment we are being walked all over. Personally I don't disagree. If there is no way of enforcing punctuality and reliability then some kind of sanction for either operators or (if appropriate) drivers might concentrate minds rather well. Obviously, any system of penalties would have to make allowance for reasonable excuses fore lateness/missing etc. but there must be numerous occasions when there is no legitimate reason. People often forget that unless there is competition on a route (an increasing rarity these days) the operator will still get the fare on the next bus no matter how long passengers have to wait and therefore there is really no financial incentive to turn up on time. |
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Post by bususer on Sept 25, 2023 14:27:09 GMT
I notice TM Travel have now extended the 31 to Loxley too, which I presume goes through parts of Wisewood. With the 57 running through the Far Lane end of the estate, Loxley and Wisewood don't do too badly for service coverage now, and there is always the regular Supertram at Malin Bridge for those who don't mind a walk. The 52a suffered severe reliability issues when it ran to Wisewood. I would assume the traffic on Middlewood Road was an aggrevating factor. You are right, tendering poses low financial risk to the operator and in somecases, guaranteed work forever. The smaller operators don't have the resources to run the frequent routes but I can see Hulley's having a stab at it, as their network grows. I believe they have even recruited agency drivers to cope with the demand. Interestingly, Mainline used to do a significant amount of tender work on the side. Halfway garage used to have a fleet of N***DWE Beavers that worked as mobility buses. Perhaps the rollout of fully lowfloor buses has brought an end to that market. It will be interesting to see how Stagecoach do when they lose the Supertram contract, whether people will still buy Stagecoach Dayriders or switch to First Day tickets. The 31 is a SYMCA tender which was introduced last November to cover Upperthorpe, parts of Lower Walkley, Wisewood and Loxley to provide a daytime service to replace the two First withdrew (52a being one, I can't remember the number of the other one!) Just a quick question on your last point. When Stagecoach lose the tram franchise is there anything to stop them running buses along similar routes in competition with the new state owned operator? Is this likely to happen? |
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Post by markno16 on Sept 26, 2023 7:52:53 GMT
The 31 is a SYMCA tender which was introduced last November to cover Upperthorpe, parts of Lower Walkley, Wisewood and Loxley to provide a daytime service to replace the two First withdrew (52a being one, I can't remember the number of the other one!) Just a quick question on your last point. When Stagecoach lose the tram franchise is there anything to stop them running buses along similar routes in competition with the new state owned operator? Is this likely to happen? Highly unlikely. The tram resources required are distinctly different to bus resources and there would be little business case to challenge to tram directly. The average passenger doesn’t know or care who operates the tram, and let’s be honest it is so closely regulated that all it really is is a sticker on the side. |
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Post by dougie on Sept 26, 2023 9:02:45 GMT
There’s nothing stopping Stagecoach from introducing parallel services that they have spare vehicles/ spare staff/ spare depot space for
But then there was nothing forcing First/ Mainline/ Terrier to withdraw the frequent routes to Norfolk Park, Middlewood etc that they ran back before the tram and in the pre-Stagecoach days when passenger numbers were fairly unremarkable on the tram - but I can’t see many people switching from trams to buses nowadays
As for funding operators for not running tendered services, I guess that would be easy to include in the specifications for new contracts, i know that train operators face agreed penalties for cancelling services - the two problems you’d have with buses would be:
1. That would only really apply to new contracts, since amending existing ones could be “expensive” (lawyers etc)
2. Would operators significantly increase tender prices in anticipation of posting some fines over the duration of the contract? Prices seem to have gone up a fair bit recently for cash strapped PTEs around the country, with some tenders not being awarded because nobody could deliver sufficient value for money
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Post by simonk82701 on Oct 1, 2023 7:13:00 GMT
There’s nothing stopping Stagecoach from introducing parallel services that they have spare vehicles/ spare staff/ spare depot space for But then there was nothing forcing First/ Mainline/ Terrier to withdraw the frequent routes to Norfolk Park, Middlewood etc that they ran back before the tram and in the pre-Stagecoach days when passenger numbers were fairly unremarkable on the tram - but I can’t see many people switching from trams to buses nowadays As for funding operators for not running tendered services, I guess that would be easy to include in the specifications for new contracts, i know that train operators face agreed penalties for cancelling services - the two problems you’d have with buses would be: 1. That would only really apply to new contracts, since amending existing ones could be “expensive” (lawyers etc) 2. Would operators significantly increase tender prices in anticipation of posting some fines over the duration of the contract? Prices seem to have gone up a fair bit recently for cash strapped PTEs around the country, with some tenders not being awarded because nobody could deliver sufficient value for money Whilst I see where you are coming from, tender prices should not be allowed to increase of that basis. The traffic commissioner should be applying fines anyway. Services as a general rule should not run more than 5 minutes late, according to existing rules. I was talking to a driver the other day, and when he started 20 years ago the had 15 minutes longer to get a 22 into Doncaster. Gradually over the years this has been reduced. It is now not at all uncommon to be fifteen minutes late out of Doncaster on a daily basis. The timetable is impossible, it is generated by Lincoln, who are clueless as to how the route works, and drivers and passengers have had enough. They plan a route on paper, having never driven it. Apart from on the occasional Saturday afternoon. I cannot remember the last time, I left on time on an hourly service. If they were fined it would stop tomorrow. Especially if operators were told, they were not allowed to withdraw a service by the TC, until the proved they could run it correctly for a set period of time. Driver shortages can no longer be used as a excuse either. Don't take the service on unless you can resource it, and that includes lucrative school contacts where an alternative coach operator is available. Worksop often cancels service work around school times, to make room for schools. No enough. time to get some discipline back into an industry that has got away with it for too long. And no, I don't blame drivers, I feel for them. This is poor management. |
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Post by crossscythe on Oct 2, 2023 15:39:11 GMT
Does anyone know if any contingency plans will be in place for when some routes go 2 hourly to ensure that none of said services are missing? When a route with a 15 minute frequency has a bus missing, that is one thing but on a 2 hourly route, it could mean someone's day/night is ruined.
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Post by simonk82701 on Oct 2, 2023 20:06:04 GMT
Does anyone know if any contingency plans will be in place for when some routes go 2 hourly to ensure that none of said services are missing? When a route with a 15 minute frequency has a bus missing, that is one thing but on a 2 hourly route, it could mean someone's day/night is ruined. If anything of the sort happens to me, an attempt to claim a taxi fare would be made. Let's hope they have spare drivers for the very poor show of a bus network we now have on Sundays and evenings. |
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Post by simonk82701 on Oct 3, 2023 20:27:22 GMT
Sorry my views on this are quite firm, if that many 76a's are cancelled, then £1000 fine per run missed, enforced by the traffic commissioner. And once a fine has been issued, any company is prevented from withdrawing the service by the T/C until they show they can run it properly. That would stop this very poor behaviour very quickly. I know some of you may disagree with me and that's okay, but we need to get some discipline back into this industry as at the moment we are being walked all over. Personally I don't disagree. If there is no way of enforcing punctuality and reliability then some kind of sanction for either operators or (if appropriate) drivers might concentrate minds rather well. Obviously, any system of penalties would have to make allowance for reasonable excuses fore lateness/missing etc. but there must be numerous occasions when there is no legitimate reason. People often forget that unless there is competition on a route (an increasing rarity these days) the operator will still get the fare on the next bus no matter how long passengers have to wait and therefore there is really no financial incentive to turn up on time. I couldn't agree more. obviously if the delay is caused by dangerous weather, roadworks or accidents, the fine would not apply. But regular driver shortages, staff illness, and multiple breakdowns are no longer reasonable excuses for the current shoddy service level provided by some of the mostly bigger operators. I would say that 90% of services must operate within 10 minutes of a timetable over a 7 day period. And also 97% of services must operate in full, over a 7 day period to prevent a financial penalty being triggered. Simple rules that are easily understood by all operators so that they know where they stand. I have also seen multiple examples of late running caused by impossible timetabling. For example you need more than 1 hour 5 minutes to get from Worksop to Doncaster. |
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