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Post by rothlad on Sept 20, 2022 20:03:20 GMT
Services first so far will not be running from October list not complete. 8a 9/9a 22a/22c 25 26 27 29 57 83 86 114 135 137 138 x64 x74. Add 136 to that list also. Kimberworth will now be Stagecoach territory with the 135/137, same goes for Moorgate/Whiston. A 138 service was tendered, but don't believe it was awarded? |
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Post by rothlad on Sept 20, 2022 20:04:48 GMT
Plus 10 Rotherham- Doncaster, 19 Doncaster- Dryden Road and 181 Sheffield- Dore. Is Stagecoach 22 replacing 19 all the time or will they go back to 72/73 nonsense they had a few years ago or just leave the school and residents of this weird dead end with no bus? 71 is making a comeback and extending beyond Hexthorpe, through to Dryden Road. 72/73 reduced to hourly, can't remember if 71 is hourly or 20/40 mins to provide 3bph through Hexthorpe. |
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Post by rothlad on Sept 20, 2022 20:10:58 GMT
This is becoming more farcical by the hour. Just spoken to TM Travels office. The gentlemen was not aware of the possible cancelation of the 20 or 24a. He said he would speak to the depot manager and see if they knew anything. Also, unaware of any change from a 29A to a 21 or whatever it is, even though that is listed as cancelled. He seemed to think changes could keep happening right up to the end of September! He said both SYPTE and Derbyshire CC had been last minute again, and they were still waiting to hear about multiple routes. Whether or not this is all true, but he did sound very shocked when I told him the 20 and 24A were listed as cancelled. I feel a bit guilty now because I thought the operators were in on this mess, I am now thinking am I wrong? Is this mostly SYPTE at fault leaving it too late? I know there appear to have been some negotiations with operators at the last minute. However, I bet the operators made it plain weeks ago what they wanted to drop. Therefore, SYPTE and other stakeholders must have known what needed to be covered weeks ago! I think I need to write a letter to SYPTE and Bus users UK. One simple rule needs to be enforced: No changes to timetables or routes beond 28 days before the change date. If new funding is found after that time, then the current service level and operator is maintained, whilst notice is given and if needs be a service review carried out.This would also ensure operators could not argue till the last minute as to if a route was commercial or tendered. I had no idea that certain operators also had no clue about certain changes, now 11 days away. I rely on the buses and have never felt that I am being treated with such contempt as I feel that I am at the moment! I'm starting to blame the PTE in full, I don't think this big a shambles can solely be caused by the operators. There's management in these routes somewhere, albeit lacking. I would fully join you on writing a letter too. I'll have a chat further with drivers and see what is actually known, and report back later. Hopefully some on here also know the extent at which drivers and lower-level staff are informed. There's a lot more to it than meets the eye. BRG funding has been a major headache, especially with operators picking and choosing if to accept it... In SY for instance, Arriva and First have declined BRG funding and are pressing ahead with the cuts, however Stagecoach and TM Travel have accepted BRG funding. This leads to the worst scenario possible, as now you have a situation where the former is pressing ahead with network cuts, yet the latter can't cover or help out due to having to maintain their current networks - and having no spare resources. It also didn't help the fact how the DfT had announced the extension to BRG funding on the 42 day registration deadline day. Like I say, worst case scenario and this is being seen right across the country. All LA's and Operators are in the same predicament. |
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donc
Inspector
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Post by donc on Sept 20, 2022 20:21:42 GMT
I'm starting to blame the PTE in full, I don't think this big a shambles can solely be caused by the operators. There's management in these routes somewhere, albeit lacking. I would fully join you on writing a letter too. I'll have a chat further with drivers and see what is actually known, and report back later. Hopefully some on here also know the extent at which drivers and lower-level staff are informed. There's a lot more to it than meets the eye. BRG funding has been a major headache, especially with operators picking and choosing if to accept it... In SY for instance, Arriva and First have declined BRG funding and are pressing ahead with the cuts, however Stagecoach and TM Travel have accepted BRG funding. This leads to the worst scenario possible, as now you have a situation where the former is pressing ahead with network cuts, yet the latter can't cover or help out due to having to maintain their current networks - and having no spare resources. It also didn't help the fact how the DfT had announced the extension to BRG funding on the 42 day registration deadline day. Like I say, worst case scenario and this is being seen right across the country. All LA's and Operators are in the same predicament. |
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donc
Inspector
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Post by donc on Sept 20, 2022 20:24:01 GMT
Is Stagecoach 22 replacing 19 all the time or will they go back to 72/73 nonsense they had a few years ago or just leave the school and residents of this weird dead end with no bus? 71 is making a comeback and extending beyond Hexthorpe, through to Dryden Road. 72/73 reduced to hourly, can't remember if 71 is hourly or 20/40 mins to provide 3bph through Hexthorpe. I know getting the Weston Road service right is a continual problem but this constant shift between the three scenarios every year is getting ridiculous. They tried 19 via Hexthorpe it failed ( I think the Weston Road people objected to going on a detour into town), they then tried 72/73 up Weston Road but stupidly had both buses arrive at the same time. So they brought the original 19 back via Balby Road, now it's back to 19 diverting through Hexthorpe. It won't work and it will change again. Let's hope they can leave this area alone and give it some stability. |
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Post by syjunkie on Sept 20, 2022 20:45:34 GMT
Services first so far will not be running from October list not complete. 8a 9/9a 22a/22c 25 26 27 29 57 83 86 114 135 137 138 x64 x74. Add 136 to that list also. Kimberworth will now be Stagecoach territory with the 135/137, same goes for Moorgate/Whiston. A 138 service was tendered, but don't believe it was awarded? Wonder if stagecoach will take on the 136 fully now or gone all together |
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Post by simonk82701 on Sept 20, 2022 20:52:48 GMT
I'm starting to blame the PTE in full, I don't think this big a shambles can solely be caused by the operators. There's management in these routes somewhere, albeit lacking. I would fully join you on writing a letter too. I'll have a chat further with drivers and see what is actually known, and report back later. Hopefully some on here also know the extent at which drivers and lower-level staff are informed. There's a lot more to it than meets the eye. BRG funding has been a major headache, especially with operators picking and choosing if to accept it... In SY for instance, Arriva and First have declined BRG funding and are pressing ahead with the cuts, however Stagecoach and TM Travel have accepted BRG funding. This leads to the worst scenario possible, as now you have a situation where the former is pressing ahead with network cuts, yet the latter can't cover or help out due to having to maintain their current networks - and having no spare resources. It also didn't help the fact how the DfT had announced the extension to BRG funding on the 42 day registration deadline day. Like I say, worst case scenario and this is being seen right across the country. All LA's and Operators are in the same predicament. I totally get what you are saying, however this is where the traffic commissioner should have stepped in to maintain some sort of order. Operators should have been instructed to carry on operating to current routes and timetables until such time as a review could be carried out to determine what this extension to funding would mean for services. As it is the whole system has been left in chaos, if confirmed First have essentially pulled out of Rotherham, (locals anyway) with 9 days' notice leaving passengers high and dry. Before anyone states that you cannot force an operator to do something, true, but remember, they had Millions of pounds in covid funding to keep their services operating. That is taxpayer's money maintaining them. A bit like the banks. I didn't see them rush to turn that funding down! Yes, covid has played a part in the bus industry's woes, as it did in most sectors. However, passenger numbers are down in part now due to chronic reliability issues, primarily due to staff being undervalued for years. They are leaving for better pay and conditions, and the industry needs to wake up to that and sharpish. If the TC had told them to carry on for just a few more weeks life would have been much easier! That is my view for what it's worth! I know some people here may disagree and that is fine. Maybe is time to give just a tiny bit back, rather than walk away from a loyal customer base that you have had for a long time. Why on earth would any firm want to turn down funding anyway? Seems odd. |
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Post by sheflad on Sept 20, 2022 21:07:22 GMT
From what I can see basically First are 60 drivers short to provide the services that currently run but by accepting the additional funding would still have to run them, so have decided to decline the funding to match what drivers they have available. This hopefully providing a more reliable service for the routes remaining and grow those routes as a result. However as Stagecoach and TM have accepted the extended funding they’re unable to take on any additional routes probably due to not having enough drivers to cover this additional work.
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Post by simonk82701 on Sept 20, 2022 21:14:04 GMT
so, what do First have left in Rotherham town centre? Place your bets now, x10, x78,73 and 115-116- this one being questionable. not sure if this will survive the cull. Maybe the 139-142. Have I missed any?
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Post by simonk82701 on Sept 20, 2022 21:25:45 GMT
Add 136 to that list also. Kimberworth will now be Stagecoach territory with the 135/137, same goes for Moorgate/Whiston. A 138 service was tendered, but don't believe it was awarded? Wonder if stagecoach will take on the 136 fully now or gone all together Earlier in this thread someone said that they thought SY had maintained the evening and Sunday 136. If this proves to be right, I would be very surprised if it didn't run a daytime service of some sort. The wording used was along the lines of, we have maintained our tendered work, with the exception of service 84 (chesterfield) Hully's have that one. |
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Post by simonk82701 on Sept 20, 2022 21:30:54 GMT
From what I can see basically First are 60 drivers short to provide the services that currently run but by accepting the additional funding would still have to run them, so have decided to decline the funding to match what drivers they have available. This hopefully providing a more reliable service for the routes remaining and grow those routes as a result. However as Stagecoach and TM have accepted the extended funding they’re unable to take on any additional routes probably due to not having enough drivers to cover this additional work. Ahh, that makes sense yes. Maybe they need to start looking at the conditions for drivers then. I know Worksop SEM is between 20-25 down. But we do have some trainees. It's how long they stay, that's the big question. |
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Solo
Driver
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Post by Solo on Sept 20, 2022 23:03:42 GMT
I suppose comes the question how will these services from SSY be interworked? From current routes as is the case with 93/95/22x or given buses to interwork with each other? It might well be still that they are given allocated vehicles to run solely on those routes rather than with existing services.
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Post by The Captain on Sept 20, 2022 23:06:38 GMT
To claim BRG you have to be able to run 90% of your network, that's not possible when your over 60 drivers short, bearing in mind we are all still on a Saturday schedule with schools and extras thrown in since Covid, when Rotherham Midland Road shut the Sheffield PVR was 273, it went down to 189 after covid and there was talk of it dropping to under 150 with the October changes but its probably nearer 180 now after the last minute amendments.
Can you imagine the amount of cancellations if FSY/SSY and TM were still on full Monday to Friday schedules with 5 minute headways on such as 52/120 etc?.
The time has come to be realistic, to be 9 days away from huge timetable changes and everyone across the board still not knowing 100% what's happening is unprecedented, the governments extension of the BRG and its timing was very very late.
Operators have been hung out to dry.
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Post by The Captain on Sept 20, 2022 23:10:03 GMT
From what I can see basically First are 60 drivers short to provide the services that currently run but by accepting the additional funding would still have to run them, so have decided to decline the funding to match what drivers they have available. This hopefully providing a more reliable service for the routes remaining and grow those routes as a result. However as Stagecoach and TM have accepted the extended funding they’re unable to take on any additional routes probably due to not having enough drivers to cover this additional work. Ahh, that makes sense yes. Maybe they need to start looking at the conditions for drivers then. I know Worksop SEM is between 20-25 down. But we do have some trainees. It's how long they stay, that's the big question. Worksops been the same for years, lower rates than other Stagecoach depots, long distance routes with the only attraction being mostly rural or town work no big city's apart from into Nottingham, its always been on the poor end vehicle wise too. |
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Post by The Captain on Sept 20, 2022 23:13:04 GMT
so, what do First have left in Rotherham town centre? Place your bets now, x10, x78,73 and 115-116- this one being questionable. not sure if this will survive the cull. Maybe the 139-142. Have I missed any? Nobody wants Rotherham, Bradgates, Maltbys and X78s paid for the rest of the town services, they are just shadows now, Stagecoach are the same, the Rawmarsh services made the money then they mucked them up and the traffic at Parkgate killed them. |
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