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Post by tofskilemons on Jun 25, 2014 22:39:54 GMT
The Transport Police making arrests of demonstrating OAP's was something of an "unusual" sighting! About time though - have all the buggers for fare evasion! |
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Post by lysander on Jun 26, 2014 12:58:35 GMT
They weren't evading fares at all. They were publicly protesting by refusing to pay.There is a difference!
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Post by duncan on Jun 26, 2014 13:24:32 GMT
They weren't evading fares at all. They were publicly protesting by refusing to pay.There is a difference! We are playing with words here. They refused to pay therefore they have evaded their fare. If I walk into a shop and pick up an item I want and take it, that is theft. If I take it because I think I should have it for nothing that is still theft. These people have had to resort to this because they are getting very little support for their cause from the general public. When most of these people were at work paying their taxes they were not supporting free rail travel for OAP's but now expect those who are paying taxes to provide it for them. They had it for a while as a concession but due to a desire to balance the books it has had to be withdrawn. They have been granted half fare and that is not enough. I can see why the public are not giving a lot of support. |
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Post by DPL233 (33LUG) on Jun 26, 2014 14:03:18 GMT
They weren't evading fares at all. They were publicly protesting by refusing to pay.There is a difference! I hope that Northern Rail throw the book at them, as by their own admission they had only purchased tickets from Barnsley to Wombwell. Let's hope that the Judge decides that the maximum penalty should be awarded - £1,000 fine & 3 months imprisonment. |
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Post by siy2010 on Jun 26, 2014 19:52:51 GMT
The Transport Police making arrests of demonstrating OAP's was something of an "unusual" sighting! About time though - have all the buggers for fare evasion! Don't even get me started on this, over 3/4 of the protestors were disabled pass holders so had every right to be on the train to Sheffield and every right to be on the platform. As for the police, why did they let the protestors travel to Sheffield with out as much as muttering a word to them but once in the most dangerous (on the platform) place they started taking any action. And how in any description can 5 police officers holding down a single OAP ever be classed a proportionate. |
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Post by siy2010 on Jun 26, 2014 19:56:24 GMT
Think the word for it is civil disobedience. I see no wrong in protesting at all even if it means breaking law. I'm pretty sure a lot of things have been won in the past by protesting to what ever means it takes.
They have had a partial victory by getting the mobility passes reinstated so why not push for the OAP ones putting back, just cause the council/government do something doesn't mean its right and shouldn't be fought.
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Post by TC60054 on Jun 29, 2014 20:30:17 GMT
Double 153 on the 15:05 Leeds - Nottingham (Sheffield 16:05) yesterday.
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Post by lysander on Jun 30, 2014 7:46:12 GMT
Well,how surprised I am at the general attitude toward us "twirlies". We were working and paying our taxes( at a generally higher rate than currently applies) to help fund the education, health, national infrastructure and general well being of our younger generations...which was our duty. We were also paying toward the pensions of our parents and grandparents...which was our duty, as well as helping create the Society in which we all now live. Given that Pensions are funded out of current Government Revenue and not from income derived from interest on investments the problem will continue. That is one reason why we have one of the lowest Pensions in the Advanced World and why Gordon Brown introduced the Bus _Pass...or Subsidy to Transport Operators as many of us argue....but "envied" by younger people. The addition, within South Yorkshire, of free local rail travel was an added and very useful benefit. This was withdrawn , without any consultation and has now been partially restored....I wonder, would that have happened without the protest?
Protest is something which my generation ,and earlier generations, appreciates is sometimes necessary... and it is something which, over the centuries, has won us the freedoms we currently enjoy.The attitudes of the current younger generation is a worrying concern to those who care about our freedoms.
Having said all, that how disgraceful to see a few of the protesters singled out by the Police, publicly humiliated and man-handled so an example may be made of them.
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Post by duncan on Jun 30, 2014 11:09:56 GMT
Well,how surprised I am at the general attitude toward us "twirlies". We were working and paying our taxes( at a generally higher rate than currently applies) to help fund the education, health, national infrastructure and general well being of our younger generations...which was our duty. We were also paying toward the pensions of our parents and grandparents...which was our duty, as well as helping create the Society in which we all now live. Given that Pensions are funded out of current Government Revenue and not from income derived from interest on investments the problem will continue. That is one reason why we have one of the lowest Pensions in the Advanced World and why Gordon Brown introduced the Bus _Pass...or Subsidy to Transport Operators as many of us argue....but "envied" by younger people. The addition, within South Yorkshire, of free local rail travel was an added and very useful benefit. This was withdrawn , without any consultation and has now been partially restored....I wonder, would that have happened without the protest? Protest is something which my generation ,and earlier generations, appreciates is sometimes necessary... and it is something which, over the centuries, has won us the freedoms we currently enjoy.The attitudes of the current younger generation is a worrying concern to those who care about our freedoms. Having said all, that how disgraceful to see a few of the protesters singled out by the Police, publicly humiliated and man-handled so an example may be made of them. I personally find it more disgraceful that supposed adults and supposedly responsible people behave in this way. A protest is one thing, theft is another. peaceful protest has failed because the working population who are bankrolling your jolly days out are fed up with the want, want, want. Yes you paid for pensions etc for your elders whilst you were working, in the same way we are paying for yours now. How on earth can a free bus pass that you decide if to use or not, when and where be a subsidy? It is a SMALL recompense for carrying you ungrateful buggers. It a woefully less than a standard fare but companies have one choice, take it or leave it. IF IT WAS A SUBSIDY IT WOULD BE PAID IRRESPECTIVE OF HOW MANY WERE CARRIED. IT IS NOT. We are paying for an improved health service that can come up with evermore creative and expensive ways of keeping people alive for longer just so they can moan about what they are not getting. The problem is we have an aging population and I for one will have to work later into life to pay for you lot. The behaviour of these protesters makes me want to stop every penny I pay towards them. We are also tipping money into the EEU that you were not in order to fund hill farmers in 3rd world countries in order that they can live a reasonable life. When you were working you were not paying for free bus or train travel for your elders or any of the above, but demand it of us. Hypocrisy at its finest. Disabled passes are a different argument altogether, some need peak time travel and some do not. That should be sorted on a case by case basis. |
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Post by lysander on Jun 30, 2014 11:38:21 GMT
Self evidently, you and I have different mental processes. A subsidy it is because the operators do not spend an additional penny but receive additional income. That is a subsidy!
By the way, the "working" and presumably tax paying population are no different from we OAP's...who still pay our taxes. So we are paying toward your ...children's education, your healthcare, your family credit etc. etc.
We also are tired; in our case of a selfish and uncaring generation who, on reflection, were given too much when they were young and whose parents asked for too little in return... Unlike we,who as a generation, grew up with real shortages of almost everything, rationing and real austerity. We grew up in a bombed out environment in a country which was bankrupt....but we grew up with more empathy and understanding of others...something which is sadly lacking these days.
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Post by duncan on Jun 30, 2014 11:47:36 GMT
A subsidy it is because the operators do not spend an additional penny but receive additional income. That is a subsidy! They carry you on their buses, that costs money especially when you have journeys that carry large amounts of pensioners. Buses do not run on fresh air. |
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Post by duncan on Jun 30, 2014 11:49:31 GMT
We grew up in a bombed out environment in a country which was bankrupt....but we grew up with more empathy and understanding of others...something which is sadly lacking these days. So by your actions you want us to become bankrupt again? I suppose we will have more empathy with you then. |
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Post by lysander on Jun 30, 2014 12:02:42 GMT
In case it had eluded you, the country was virtually bankrupt, having fought, within 25 years, two world wars to stop dictators. Your generation has caused the virtual bankruptcy of the UK by virtue of borrowing too much!
On reflection,your attitudes and opinions have no interest to me, Duncan. I just feel sad that all the money spent on your education should have left you with so little understanding or comprehension of cases, facts or counter arguments but has given you so much selfishness. What a waste!
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Post by sheflad on Jun 30, 2014 13:16:48 GMT
What gets me about all of this though is the fact that the train concession was unique to South Yorkshire residents, you don't see pensioners in other areas of the country acting in the same way as the protesters have to get something which essentially was a nice extra perk.
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Post by duncan on Jun 30, 2014 13:57:18 GMT
On reflection,your attitudes and opinions have no interest to me, Duncan. I just feel sad that all the money spent on your education should have left you with so little understanding or comprehension of cases, facts or counter arguments but has given you so much selfishness. What a waste! Selfishness = wanting something for oneself. Isnt that what these protesters want? As I head towards the age where I may be able to retire, I will be planning for it. As I am sure you did. In fact I would wager you have more disposable income than me, yet you still want free rail travel that the rest of the country does not have. I for one can see who are the selfish ones here as can the majority of the population which is why there is so little support for this case. I for one will not comment further to save you the embarrassment of digging an ever deeper hole. |
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