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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2013 8:51:14 GMT
When they build the link road are there any plans to build around the road i.e. business parks or retail parks or is it just a road from M18 to Parrots Corner?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2013 9:54:58 GMT
it goes from the current M18 White Rose Way intersection to Parrots Corner via a roundabout which links into Bankwood Industrial Estate and the colliery site
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Post by jakerton43 on Jun 16, 2013 10:56:33 GMT
A proper link direct from the M18 was essential right from the beginning, the lack of which has led to the inevitable under use of the airport. The new link road seems more like Doncaster council jumping on an opportunity to link Rossington to the motorway network than a serious attempt to serve the airport hence it stops 2 miles short of the airport and dumps people onto the existing road network at Parrotts Corner. The x19 should in theory provide a good bus link but when it gets within sight of the airport it sets off on a tour of Finningly rather than going straight in on the access road I really wanted to see this airport flourish but with no government and council support itseems doomed to failure From July the X19 will be rerouted around Finningley. I don't see why it has to do a loop around the Airport. To me the Airport has poor Bus links compared to when the Airport first opened. I also like the suggestion on this thread regarding a parkway station. Isn't there a similar Parkway station in Liverpool too?? |
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Post by lysander on Jun 16, 2013 12:03:55 GMT
I doubt there is a lack of Central Government or local council support. The FARRRS scheme ( originally estimated at £30-£40 million but likely to cost well below this estimate) is intended to "galvanise further development at Robin Hood Airport and strategic rail freight interchange as well as reclaiming the Rossington Colliery site". The scheme has been supported and funded by : Government Regional Growth Fund,Private sector developer funds, Doncaster Council and the Sheffield City Region.
Carillion has been awarded the contract and work was due to start early this year. A delay has been experienced, which is believed to be because of some problems with the rail freight development.
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Post by doncasterdart on Jun 17, 2013 7:50:30 GMT
Driving on the local roads regularly, the link road will cut off a good 10 minutes from the motorway for sure, and during busy times even longer. I think with the comments above, direct bus services are a necessity, probably from Doncaster, Scunthorpe and maybe even Sheffield!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2013 12:38:35 GMT
Maybe they should merge the Park & Ride site with the airport car park
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Post by jakerton43 on Jun 17, 2013 19:09:55 GMT
Maybe they should merge the Park & Ride site with the airport car park That seems a better suggestion as it may generate more users as at the moment it's not well used is it? And then provide a shuttle bus to the P&R site from the Airport. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2013 19:52:30 GMT
With regards bus services to Robin Hood Airport, when the Airport first opened it was mention that the then 287 which went to Bawtry should be extended to the Airport, linking various areas to the Airport. The service however was cut back to Maltby. The shuttle bus idea might be able to be done with the 638 P&R B7RLE's rather than most of them sat idle at Leger Way for most of the day.
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CS
Driver
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Post by CS on Jun 18, 2013 1:40:52 GMT
This is a typical chicken and egg situation. When the airport was in the planning phase, lack of a direct link route from the M18 was of little concern to the developers. Generally, airlines don't tend to be too concerned about road links, moreover they are concerned with how many people within a given radius of the airport have a high propensity to fly to the destination(s) said airline would like to serve.
Despite it's size, the Doncaster airport's catchment area suffers from; a) a relatively low propensity to fly, and b)a highly competitive environment where Manchester, East Midlands and (to a lesser extent) Leeds Bradford are within easy reach of the target market. All of those airports serve far larger, more diverse urban areas and thus attract the airlines en-mass, who in turn create the pull from lesser served regions such as South Yorkshire.
It is a tricky situation to be in, and whilst people tend to be quick to blame the 'economy' on the struggles many UK regional airports are facing, the truth is that the phenomenal growth witnessed by low-cost airlines in the decade or so until c. 2007, is unlikely to be repeated. A number of factors, including higher fuel prices and greater environmental concerns (which have prompted UK Govt. to levy more taxes upon the airlines), have pushed operating costs up significantly in the last few years. Therefore, ticket prices are far higher than they were just 5 or 6 years ago. Most of your traditional low-cost airlines are trying to move away from the no-frill's banner. Jet2 now referring to themselves as a 'leading leisure airline', but most tellingly easyJet now calling themselves a 'short-haul airline offering great value for money' connecting to major European city-pairs to attract both business and leisure passengers. Even Ryanair, despite being unlikely to admit it, have had to amend their growth philosophy to allow for the fact that traditional 'low-cost' airlines and 'primary' airports are realising the benefits of partnership. Where once easyJet and Ryanair dominated the North West from previously underused Liverpool, they now have overshadowing operations from Manchester.
It is the Liverpool growth model that was intended to be replicated at Doncaster. Unfortunately for those concerned, Doncaster opened a few years too late, Jet2 opened a base at Leeds (the airport that has since been taken over in 2007 by a pro-development private equity firm, as opposed to the anti-airport, anti-aviation local authority owners who had overseen it's significant under-performance during the decades previous), low-cost airlines found East Midlands a fruitful venture and rapidly established sizeable operations there, and Manchester realised the importance the traditional low-cost airlines had upon future growth. All of this happened between the time that the idea of Finningley as an airport was concieved, through to when the first commercial flight departed in 2005. The race to the bottom had begun, and airports throughout the country have had to lower their charges to remain competitive to the point where the secondary airports outside of London, like Doncaster, Teesside and, to a degree, Liverpool, are no longer the attractive and innovative propositions they may once have been.
Appologies for the rambling post, but I think it important to highlight the real issues that the management team at Doncaster will be facing at the moment. Certainly FARRRS will far from hurt the growth prospects, but the lack of a direct link road, or quality public transport links, has played a tiny part in the general malaise we have witnessed at Doncaster Airport for most of it's civillian life, if it has played a part at all. Leeds Bradford will surpass the magic 3 million passenger figure this year, its road links are notoriously poor, far worse than the current road infrastructure at Doncaster. The pertinent question is, given the changing trend within the airline industry over the last few years, what does Doncaster offer that Leeds, East Midlands and Manchester cannot?
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Post by craig79 on Jun 18, 2013 6:12:06 GMT
I think CS has hit on the exact question that Doncaster needs to answer - what is its offer in relation to the other airports and then how does it achieve that?
There are really only two airports in the UK that successfully manage to accommodate business, leisure and long haul flights - Gatwick and Manchester. Heathrow doesn't have the capacity for leisure. So I doubt Doncaster can do all three, therefore choices have to be made. If it goes for the leisure market, what does it offer that's different to Leeds Bradford or East Midlands? The answer is nothing, so keeping Thomson happy is important, whilst perhaps chipping away at some other low cost airlines. How about the long haul market? Well, the runway is big enough for 747's and A380's, but aside from Manchester-Dubai, only Heathrow has that market and that's because being a hub airport with transfer passengers is necessary.
So aren't we left with being a really good business airport? And that's what Sheffield City was all about! But if Sheffield City really will not re-open, then turning Doncaster into a business airport has merit. To start with, they really only need 3 routes - KLM to Amsterdam, Air France to Paris and Lufthansa to Frankfurt. Three of Europe's hub airports are then covered. The rest of the airport's offer then needs sorting, fast check in + security, get the parkway station sorted and get the links to Sheffield sorted. And then, to re-open an old debate, I would seriously re-think the name. Are you a professional outfit or not? A name like Robin Hood is not good for the business community unless you're being ironic. So make it Sheffield Doncaster International Airport, upset a few people in Doncaster and move on.
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Post by lysander on Jun 18, 2013 7:30:53 GMT
Can I say that the last two posts accurately summarise the problems facing DSA. Access is less important than having routes available for people to want to access the airport.As a business airport it suffers from its location when set against that of SCA which is only minutes from the centre of the largest conurbation in the region, is on the motorway network and is in the middle of the Enterprise zone. With a runway extension of some 360 metres the Bombardier CS100 and other modern types could safely operate opening up the possibility of commercial services over much longer distances and with much higher loads.
Toronto City with a current runway length of 1200 metres successfully operates very many daily flights throughout the NE American area using turbo-props. Turner Airways and Air Canada are wanting to introduce the new generation of fuel efficient and quiet turbo-fans...hence the need to increase runway length....as was done a few years ago at LCY.
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CS
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Post by CS on Jun 18, 2013 13:39:58 GMT
craig79, whilst initially the idea of a 'parkway' station on the ECML would appear to be a non-runner, technically speaking it could free up the bottleneck currently witnessed at Doncaster if some of the serices were able to bypass Doncaster altogether. However, Doncaster Station is somewhat of a hub, so in reality I cannot see any of the major operators being overly enamoured with the idea of changing some of their stopping services from Doncaster to a 'parkway' station on the periphery. East Midland Parkway's main source of footfall appears to be the tie in with Megabus, would there ever be the requirement to replicate that up here?
An purpose built railway station at Doncaster Airport is a non-starter, studies conducted by MAG found that an airport needs to attain a figure of c. 10 million passengers per annum before the critical mass required to jusify a purpose built rail terminus is attained. I somehow cannot see a halt on the Doncaster-Lincoln line attracting sufficient passenger volumes to even allow for the operator to stop at a halt at DSA. The rail halt at Teesside was used by one train per week last time I checked.
As for KLM, Air France and Lufthansa; many would say that the airport is not well placed geographically to provide a compelling argument for such links to be established. KLM currently operate from both Leeds and Humberside airports. There are no obvious ties between Doncaster and any route Lufthansa or Air France may wish to fly, as Sheffield, even with a fully functioning link road in place, is subject to significant pull from Manchester and East Midlands where there is significantly more choice. Therefore, it is questionable as to whether the Sheffield passengers are prepared to pay a premium to fly from Doncaster to make the flights worthwhile. By some accounts, SAS recently shunned Doncaster in favour of Humberside Airport.
Doncaster needs to find it's niche, Wizzair have proved that services not provided from competitor airports will work well from Doncaster. However it is not particularly well placed to compete with the better placed airports within it's catchment area.
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Post by DPL233 (33LUG) on Jun 18, 2013 14:05:11 GMT
craig79, whilst initially the idea of a 'parkway' station on the ECML would appear to be a non-runner, technically speaking it could free up the bottleneck currently witnessed at Doncaster if some of the serices were able to bypass Doncaster altogether. However, Doncaster Station is somewhat of a hub, so in reality I cannot see any of the major operators being overly enamoured with the idea of changing some of their stopping services from Doncaster to a 'parkway' station on the periphery. East Midland Parkway's main source of footfall appears to be the tie in with Megabus, would there ever be the requirement to replicate that up here? An purpose built railway station at Doncaster Airport is a non-starter, studies conducted by MAG found that an airport needs to attain a figure of c. 10 million passengers per annum before the critical mass required to jusify a purpose built rail terminus is attained. I somehow cannot see a halt on the Doncaster-Lincoln line attracting sufficient passenger volumes to even allow for the operator to stop at a halt at DSA. The rail halt at Teesside was used by one train per week last time I checked. As for KLM, Air France and Lufthansa; many would say that the airport is not well placed geographically to provide a compelling argument for such links to be established. KLM currently operate from both Leeds and Humberside airports. There are no obvious ties between Doncaster and any route Lufthansa or Air France may wish to fly, as Sheffield, even with a fully functioning link road in place, is subject to significant pull from Manchester and East Midlands where there is significantly more choice. Therefore, it is questionable as to whether the Sheffield passengers are prepared to pay a premium to fly from Doncaster to make the flights worthwhile. By some accounts, SAS recently shunned Doncaster in favour of Humberside Airport. Doncaster needs to find it's niche, Wizzair have proved that services not provided from competitor airports will work well from Doncaster. However it is not particularly well placed to compete with the better placed airports within it's catchment area. EMP is actually a very busy station for commuting into Nottingham as well. Pity there is no public transport link to the actual airport from here other than taxis! |
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Post by lysander on Jun 18, 2013 14:10:52 GMT
Back to what I wrote a while ago....Peel had intended paying SCC compensation for "early closure" of SCA...They didn't and the proposed subsidised link service from the City was never started.
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Post by craig79 on Jun 18, 2013 18:17:43 GMT
cs, i guess when i was referring to flights to Paris, Amsterdam and Frankfurt, i had the smaller planes in mind - Embraer 170 etc. There's almost certainly no demand for 737's or A320's on these routes? KLM would be really hard to get, Humberside is close so they would be struggling to attract, hence why the Sheffield name being prominent could help. KLM recently commenced from Manston in Kent to Ams - where? exactly! - so there must be opportunities.
As for the station, you might be right about demand, although the Newcastle EC and XC services run very close timings from Doncaster so i could see no impact in one stopping, one not. Plus if you extended the services i referred to, doesn't the hub simply move a bit?! EMP doesnt seem to have done great, but then it doesn't even have a dedicated bus to EMA so that can't help.
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