21st Anniversary (Read 1,654 times)

[alexander]

Are there any plans to commemorate 21 years of Supertram operation this year?

[Deleted]

Replacement Buses?

[duncan]

A paint job of a tram into a more recent version of Thamesdowns livery would be good, and in keeping.

[lysander]

Maybe an announcement of a firm intention to expand the efficient, environmentally friendly system .

[duncan]

Well they have tried that by the front door and got sent away with a flea in their ear, They have managed a minor one through the back door that may or may not work.
What about a proper re-think and scrapping some parts that seriously don't work and replacing them with bits that might work.

Oh and stopping all the backdoor subsidies as well.

[lysander]

What exactly are the "back door " subsidies? Are these to do with the complcated funding arrangements which left a shortfall after construction when, seemingly, the Local Authorities looked like being out of pocket? If so,these were resolved by the last Labour Government...or are they regular subsidies toward revenue and running costs?

The considerable financial subsidies received by the bus industry are well known but I am really curious to know what the tram receives?

As for your suggestion about the parts that "don't work", I presume you refer to the Herdings branch and, perhaps, the section from Crystal Peaks to Halfway. I agree, the former shouldn't have been built after the housing it was intended to serve was demolished but Halfway is busy...at times... being used not only by locals but by many coming across the boundary from NE Derbyshire and Rotherham.

"Bits that work" would need building and, so long as Central Government funding is so biased toward London and the South East, who will fund the cost of electrification and trackwork??? Perhaps, when we have a more devolved transport budget/policy then the sort of radical re-think of ALL transport we need will be possible. Especially given that in its original form the proposed Supertram was intended to be the core of an integrated transport network with buses complementing the tram/ light railway service... together with integrated ticketing.. Bus de-regulation was therefore something of a problem to any who wished to see an integrated system. Until devolved powers are given we will have to wait.

[TC60054]

They didn't do anything special for 20 years, why would they do anything for 21? Surely 20 is the more "milestone" anniversary than 21...

[duncan]

The backdoor subsidies are the promise made to stagecoach to have encts passes accepted on trams despite them not being part of the base scheme.
The mythical "subsidy" paid to bus operators is nothing more than fuel duty rebate under ever changing names and is reducing year on year. This has been around for years and is to level the playing field between buses and trains who do not pay fuel duty.

[lysander]

Well, I never. The "back door" subsidy is nothing more than allowing a pass I have never heard of on a tram. Perhaps you might elucidate? The Supertram system was, according to the Government of the day, expected to fetch between £35 and £40 million when sold. Stagecoach paid just over £1 million for the rights to run it.... Now that is a subsidy...to some shareholders, one suspects.

As for bus subsidy, it seems you have conveniently forgotten all of the subsidies paid by the Transport Executives to the Bus Operating Companies to run certain "uneconomic" services ....and dare I mention the subsidy received for allowing "twirlies" for free on public transport....which results, ultimately, in a Government financial contribution toward costs...estimated at some £1 billion. Some mornings, certain buses I use would be running almost empty between a number of stages were it not for the bus-pass carrying seniors whose subsidy makes a contribution toward overheads!....But we have had this debate before and I suspect neither of us will change our position...but I really would like to know more about the subsidy you first mentioned.

[duncan]

Mar 8, 2015 17:45:35 GMT lysander said:

Well, I never. The "back door" subsidy is nothing more than allowing a pass I have never heard of on a tram. Perhaps you might elucidate? The Supertram system was, according to the Government of the day, expected to fetch between £35 and £40 million when sold. Stagecoach paid just over £1 million for the rights to run it.... Now that is a subsidy...to some shareholders, one suspects.

As for bus subsidy, it seems you have conveniently forgotten all of the subsidies paid by the Transport Executives to the Bus Operating Companies to run certain "uneconomic" services ....and dare I mention the subsidy received for allowing "twirlies" for free on public transport....which results, ultimately, in a Government financial contribution toward costs...estimated at some £1 billion. Some mornings, certain buses I use would be running almost empty between a number of stages were it not for the bus-pass carrying seniors whose subsidy makes a contribution toward overheads!....But we have had this debate before and I suspect neither of us will change our position...but I really would like to know more about the subsidy you first mentioned.

encts passes. OAP / Mobility passes. No automatic rights to tram travel but offered as a guarantee to Stagecoach. Subsidies are not paid for concession passes. Companies are paid for carrying them as a commercial deal. It just means that we, the tax payer through the government pay your fare instead of you. Hardly a subsidy.
The PTE (in this case ) have a legal obligation to provide non economic bus services as it is illegal for a company to operate a bus service at a loss.
This can be done in a number of ways including putting services out to tender.
If these tendered services were not provided by the PTE they would not run, so once again not a subsidy.
Just the PTE providing for a legal requirement. ( and incidentally recently failing to provide same).
As for the sale of the tram systems opco, well it is pretty obvious that a compensation for enforced sale of the shares in Mainline was built in to the price, especially since there is no way that First / Mainline would ever have been given it due to MMC interference.

[lysander]

Thank you for the explanation!

[alexander]

21 years ago today since the first tram to operate in Sheffield for 33 years .

[alemaster]

21 has always been seen as a life landmark age.... this year in March is 21 years since the first line to Meadowhall opened and in the autumn it is 20 years since the wider network opened.

There will be celebrations later in the year once rail replacement works are done for the year but the details are still being discussed. Watch out for an announcement in the summer!