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Post by tomtom11928 on Oct 8, 2016 17:14:57 GMT
As most of us will know there's a consultation at the moment on the future of trams.
If it were up to you guys, what would you change about the trams any why?
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Post by dougie on Oct 8, 2016 20:30:25 GMT
When I filled out the survey, it didn't ask me much specific (re the kind of journeys I used, or would like to use).
There are two problems with any service changes, as I see it:
Firstly, balancing the two termini on each of the three spurs (Malin Bridge/ Middlewood), (Meadowhall/ Parkgate), (Herdings Park/ Halfway). Do you have the same frequency to both or put more to one terminus?
I'd say that Middlewood is busier than Malin Bridge, but is it worth the lopsided frequency that you'd get if you tried to reflect that (e.g. eight/ hour to Middlewood and four/hour to Malin Bridge would love some passenger-unfriendly gaps (compared to the five/ten minute service along that side that has been long established).
Do you run nine an hour nine an hour towards TInsley to give a balanced frequency on that section if it means that the six/hour to Meadowhall have a seven/thirteen minute frequency? Probably better to have a straight ten minute frequency to Meadowhall with a five/ten/ five frequency to Tinsley (rather than a flat seven).
Halfway is much busier than Herdings Park but the current frequency to Gleadless is ten/ ten/ five/ five due to the Purple services being split between the ten minute Blue trams. A six minute frequency to Gleadless may be more useful for some, but that's an over specification at Herdings Park based on how things are now. Though Herdings Park has two frequent bus services terminating there, and some high density housing, so could conceivably attract more tram passengers?
The other problem is the co-ordinating bus services. You've got a ten minute bus from Middlewood to Stocksbridge, a ten minute bus from Halfway to Streetfields, a ten/twenty minute bus from Malin Bridge to Stannington (at peak times) and a twenty minute bus from Crystal Peaks to Killamarsh. If you increased the Middlewood trams to eight/hour then do you run eight buses an hour from Middlewood to Stocksbridge or do you drop it down to four an hour, so that the buses only meet every other tram?
Also, given how congested the line from Park Square up to Cathedral can get when a Purple service is waiting to cross the tracks to reverse there, do you try to recede the number of "normal" trams terminating at the Cathedral (given that the Parkgate "tram train" services will be terminating there)? But then Shalesmoor is a worse place to terminate due to the track layout.
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Post by TC60054 on Oct 9, 2016 22:03:19 GMT
When I filled out the survey, it didn't ask me much specific (re the kind of journeys I used, or would like to use). There are two problems with any service changes, as I see it: Firstly, balancing the two termini on each of the three spurs (Malin Bridge/ Middlewood), (Meadowhall/ Parkgate), (Herdings Park/ Halfway). Do you have the same frequency to both or put more to one terminus? I'd say that Middlewood is busier than Malin Bridge, but is it worth the lopsided frequency that you'd get if you tried to reflect that (e.g. eight/ hour to Middlewood and four/hour to Malin Bridge would love some passenger-unfriendly gaps (compared to the five/ten minute service along that side that has been long established). Do you run nine an hour nine an hour towards TInsley to give a balanced frequency on that section if it means that the six/hour to Meadowhall have a seven/thirteen minute frequency? Probably better to have a straight ten minute frequency to Meadowhall with a five/ten/ five frequency to Tinsley (rather than a flat seven). Halfway is much busier than Herdings Park but the current frequency to Gleadless is ten/ ten/ five/ five due to the Purple services being split between the ten minute Blue trams. A six minute frequency to Gleadless may be more useful for some, but that's an over specification at Herdings Park based on how things are now. Though Herdings Park has two frequent bus services terminating there, and some high density housing, so could conceivably attract more tram passengers? The other problem is the co-ordinating bus services. You've got a ten minute bus from Middlewood to Stocksbridge, a ten minute bus from Halfway to Streetfields, a ten/twenty minute bus from Malin Bridge to Stannington (at peak times) and a twenty minute bus from Crystal Peaks to Killamarsh. If you increased the Middlewood trams to eight/hour then do you run eight buses an hour from Middlewood to Stocksbridge or do you drop it down to four an hour, so that the buses only meet every other tram? Also, given how congested the line from Park Square up to Cathedral can get when a Purple service is waiting to cross the tracks to reverse there, do you try to recede the number of "normal" trams terminating at the Cathedral (given that the Parkgate "tram train" services will be terminating there)? But then Shalesmoor is a worse place to terminate due to the track layout. The Herdings trams just get in the way everywhere...Herdings to Gleadless shuttles anyone?  |
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Post by lysander on Oct 10, 2016 14:08:20 GMT
I haven't been consulted yet. Is it about the future of the tram...i.e. extending the network ( if so any idea where the finance is coming from), or is it just a questionnaire on the timetable and useage?
My experience is mainly from Halfway into town...and apart from Sundays, the service seems fine but I often wonder how a direct service into Meadowhall would fare?
I believe the Herdings spur was included by the "experts" when there was a number of high density flats near the terminus...These were demolished shortly before the service began...so its planned "audience" was reduced before it had a chance.
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Post by tomtom11928 on Oct 10, 2016 17:11:35 GMT
I haven't been consulted yet. Is it about the future of the tram...i.e. extending the network ( if so any idea where the finance is coming from), or is it just a questionnaire on the timetable and useage? My experience is mainly from Halfway into town...and apart from Sundays, the service seems fine but I often wonder how a direct service into Meadowhall would fare? I believe the Herdings spur was included by the "experts" when there was a number of high density flats near the terminus...These were demolished shortly before the service began...so its planned "audience" was reduced before it had a chance. It's not a consultation where you'll be directly contacted. It's just an opportunity to fill out a survey and there's posters at meadowhall tram stop |
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Post by dougie on Oct 10, 2016 20:46:35 GMT
When I filled out the survey, it didn't ask me much specific (re the kind of journeys I used, or would like to use). There are two problems with any service changes, as I see it: Firstly, balancing the two termini on each of the three spurs (Malin Bridge/ Middlewood), (Meadowhall/ Parkgate), (Herdings Park/ Halfway). Do you have the same frequency to both or put more to one terminus? I'd say that Middlewood is busier than Malin Bridge, but is it worth the lopsided frequency that you'd get if you tried to reflect that (e.g. eight/ hour to Middlewood and four/hour to Malin Bridge would love some passenger-unfriendly gaps (compared to the five/ten minute service along that side that has been long established). Do you run nine an hour nine an hour towards TInsley to give a balanced frequency on that section if it means that the six/hour to Meadowhall have a seven/thirteen minute frequency? Probably better to have a straight ten minute frequency to Meadowhall with a five/ten/ five frequency to Tinsley (rather than a flat seven). Halfway is much busier than Herdings Park but the current frequency to Gleadless is ten/ ten/ five/ five due to the Purple services being split between the ten minute Blue trams. A six minute frequency to Gleadless may be more useful for some, but that's an over specification at Herdings Park based on how things are now. Though Herdings Park has two frequent bus services terminating there, and some high density housing, so could conceivably attract more tram passengers? The other problem is the co-ordinating bus services. You've got a ten minute bus from Middlewood to Stocksbridge, a ten minute bus from Halfway to Streetfields, a ten/twenty minute bus from Malin Bridge to Stannington (at peak times) and a twenty minute bus from Crystal Peaks to Killamarsh. If you increased the Middlewood trams to eight/hour then do you run eight buses an hour from Middlewood to Stocksbridge or do you drop it down to four an hour, so that the buses only meet every other tram? Also, given how congested the line from Park Square up to Cathedral can get when a Purple service is waiting to cross the tracks to reverse there, do you try to recede the number of "normal" trams terminating at the Cathedral (given that the Parkgate "tram train" services will be terminating there)? But then Shalesmoor is a worse place to terminate due to the track layout. The Herdings trams just get in the way everywhere...Herdings to Gleadless shuttles anyone? It's tempting! Eight minutes on the Blue (Malin Bridge to Halfway), eight minutes on the Yellow (Middlewood to Meadowhall), twenty minutes on the Cathedral - Parkgate Tram Trains and one tram shuttling from Gleadless to Herdings Park. Can't remember if the points there are suited to Herdings shuttles though. But I reckon that a "turn up and go" frequency could work to Herdings Park - given the flats within five minutes of the terminus there. Death or glory. All or nothing. A half hourly service to the city centre is neither nowt nor summat. |
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Post by TC60054 on Oct 10, 2016 21:16:29 GMT
The Herdings trams just get in the way everywhere...Herdings to Gleadless shuttles anyone? It's tempting! Eight minutes on the Blue (Malin Bridge to Halfway), eight minutes on the Yellow (Middlewood to Meadowhall), twenty minutes on the Cathedral - Parkgate Tram Trains and one tram shuttling from Gleadless to Herdings Park. Can't remember if the points there are suited to Herdings shuttles though. But I reckon that a "turn up and go" frequency could work to Herdings Park - given the flats within five minutes of the terminus there. Death or glory. All or nothing. A half hourly service to the city centre is neither nowt nor summat. For a Herdings to Gleadless service to run there'd need to be a shunt move but it's possible. The crossover there is in the facing direction, so it would be into platform, across points, reverse and into outbound platform. The points were motorised when installed so it's easily enough done - the work that was done on the points in 2010(?) means that there's still the possibility of a motor going in. |
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Post by lysander on Oct 11, 2016 14:40:02 GMT
Thanks TomTom... I didn't expect to be consulted at a personal level...but I have found it online and responded...I must say I have answered almost exactly the same questions before in "consultations".
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Post by dougie on Oct 11, 2016 19:28:12 GMT
It's tempting! Eight minutes on the Blue (Malin Bridge to Halfway), eight minutes on the Yellow (Middlewood to Meadowhall), twenty minutes on the Cathedral - Parkgate Tram Trains and one tram shuttling from Gleadless to Herdings Park. Can't remember if the points there are suited to Herdings shuttles though. But I reckon that a "turn up and go" frequency could work to Herdings Park - given the flats within five minutes of the terminus there. Death or glory. All or nothing. A half hourly service to the city centre is neither nowt nor summat. For a Herdings to Gleadless service to run there'd need to be a shunt move but it's possible. The crossover there is in the facing direction, so it would be into platform, across points, reverse and into outbound platform. The points were motorised when installed so it's easily enough done - the work that was done on the points in 2010(?) means that there's still the possibility of a motor going in. All we need now is a single carriage tram to cope with expected demand! |
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Post by rothlad on Oct 11, 2016 19:33:12 GMT
Personally I've always thought since the Rotherham trial was announced, it was a shame this wasn't a 15 minute frequency as then it would allow the following service pattern...
15 minute service Middlewood to Meadowhall
15 minute service Middlewood to Parkgate
Combined Middlewood to Tinsley 7/8 minutes
15 minute service Malin Bridge to Halfway
15 minute service Malin Bridge to Herdings Park
Combined Malin Bridge to Gleadless 7/8 minutes
Some of the cons however are:
1) Does the service between Hillsborough and Fitzalan Squre warrant a combined 4 minute service?
2) Is there enough demand at peak times/off peak times for the Gleadless to Halfway section? Peak times can be extremely busy, where as off peak are relatively quiet with the main stop being White Lane and Crystal Peaks.
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Post by lysander on Oct 12, 2016 8:17:47 GMT
I like the idea of a Herdings single unit...perhaps they should have kept the steeple cab shunter and attached it to an old BR Mk 1 coach!  Halfway is the Park and Ride terminus for the southern end of the system and, at peak times, can be busy with out of town commuters and idle sods like me, who invariably drive to the stop. After Gleadless the next stop which can be busy (off peak) is Birley where hoards of school kids frequently take over the tram on their way to and from school. Does anyone have any up to date information as to when we might expect to see the Rotherham route being started! |
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Post by TC60054 on Oct 13, 2016 18:47:21 GMT
For a Herdings to Gleadless service to run there'd need to be a shunt move but it's possible. The crossover there is in the facing direction, so it would be into platform, across points, reverse and into outbound platform. The points were motorised when installed so it's easily enough done - the work that was done on the points in 2010(?) means that there's still the possibility of a motor going in. All we need now is a single carriage tram to cope with expected demand! Bring back Adolf |
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Post by TC60054 on Oct 13, 2016 18:48:45 GMT
Personally I've always thought since the Rotherham trial was announced, it was a shame this wasn't a 15 minute frequency as then it would allow the following service pattern... 15 minute service Middlewood to Meadowhall 15 minute service Middlewood to Parkgate Combined Middlewood to Tinsley 7/8 minutes 15 minute service Malin Bridge to Halfway 15 minute service Malin Bridge to Herdings Park Combined Malin Bridge to Gleadless 7/8 minutes Some of the cons however are: 1) Does the service between Hillsborough and Fitzalan Squre warrant a combined 4 minute service? 2) Is there enough demand at peak times/off peak times for the Gleadless to Halfway section? Peak times can be extremely busy, where as off peak are relatively quiet with the main stop being White Lane and Crystal Peaks. One step forwards for two steps back in some places. Meadowhall and Halfway can be extremely busy and you suggest cutting the service ? Herdings does not need a fifteen minute service. |
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