donc
Inspector
Posts: 590 
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Post by donc on Nov 27, 2023 17:34:24 GMT
Tap and Cap worked fine I do not know why they needed to change to this, just expand Tap and Cap to the whole of South Yorkshire you just tap once and it's done.
Spent all this money on machines just to let them know where you got off when the fare is £2 flat anyway.
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Post by teapot42 on Nov 28, 2023 7:12:32 GMT
Tap and Cap worked fine I do not know why they needed to change to this, just expand Tap and Cap to the whole of South Yorkshire you just tap once and it's done. Spent all this money on machines just to let them know where you got off when the fare is £2 flat anyway. I really don't understand why we are so backwards in this country that just extending it to a region sounds like progress. Many other countries have had cards covering large areas if not the whole country for most of the 21st century.
You do raise an interesting question though, has it become a £2 flat fare, or are there any operators who didn't raise their minimum ticket price to £2? Of course, it will change at some point in the future so having tech ready and rolled out before that change could be a benefit, providing it supports multiple card types and not just contactless bank cards.
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Post by teapot42 on Nov 28, 2023 7:16:15 GMT
What's to stop people tapping off and remaining on the bus? Every bus has poles in different places and on a busy bus someone could easily tap off and move forward a bit and remain onboard. And when there is a crowd the driver can't see everyone (and his attention will be on the road anyway), people could just walk up and tap off. Unless they are going to deploy Revenue Protection Officers at nearly every bus stop, I can see fare evasion being a problem. Hopefully the powers that be will notice the problems and withdraw it, just like they did with the card payments for TravelMaster, following the fraud. It says a lot that we can't trust people in this country to pay. Many other countries have limited or no interaction between passenger and driver and either don't see fraud, it's at a level that isn't worth tackling, or the fines are high enough that it's not worth the risk. Maybe the approach they used to take on the Manchester Metrolink is best - random RPO 'squads' who descend, check a whole vehicle rapidly, and with fines high enough that it's enough of a deterrent? |
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Post by teapot42 on Nov 28, 2023 7:21:13 GMT
Yes because people rummaging around their purse trying to pay a fare entirely in 5 and 10p's or battling with the driver to be allowed to use a £20 note for a single is so much quicker than contactless. Do bus drivers actually carry change these days? Every time my wife uses anything other than the correct fare she gets a printed credit slip - and the journey she uses is the first one of the day for that vehicle. If they don't even have 40p when leaving the depot then I can't see them being able to give change for a £20 at any point.
One thing I have noticed - not sure which machines Stagecoach and Hulleys use, but the card reader on there is very sensitive. I always pay with my phone, and in shops you get the odd one that is awkward to find the correct distance from. Most are fine, but maybe 1 in 20 takes 2 or even 3 goes. Every time on the bus it fails first attempt. Badly designed electronics are as much to blame as those who use them.
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Post by alemaster on Nov 28, 2023 12:04:27 GMT
As a driver I'd rather sit there getting frustrated that someone's card isn't working despite the fact they're insistent that it does, rather than having to deal with sometimes what could be up to £500 of cash that I could potentially lose and have it come out of my wages, or stolen. Buses have been taking cash since day dot, surely if there was a major problem with taking cash, it would have come to public attention. With cash, the company keeps the full amount of the profit, without incurring bank charges on each transaction. For cards such as American Express, these charges can have a detrimental impact on a business, as they are very high. There is also a public drive to use cash, various news articles over recent weeks show that more people are using cash. I have seen an increase in fellow customers using cash in bars and shops. We don't want a cashless society. I am not sure how you can lose the takings, I won't divulge in great detail the process, to protect the security of the company and the drivers but as I understand it, material is provided for keeping the money seperate from everything else and then it is lodged. I used to be a catering host on trains and we had to count the stock before we we took our trolley out, and when we got back to work out what we had sold, and if we counted something wrong or didn't notice something was missing when we took the trolley out, we got charged for it. I can't see how you'd end up getting charged as long as you register passengers correctly and take the right money, I assume the till works out how much change to give etc? This is by and large nonsense. Around 70-80% of revenue taken on board buses and trams now is by card payment and the cost to the company per transaction is negligible as the facility is bundled in with the ticket machine contract. In contrast carrying cash on board or storing large amounts of money in a depot makes robbery/attacks more likely and this is reflected in higher insurance premiums, the companies also have to pay for a security van to take cash to the bank and the banks charge a fee for providing change for floats. |
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Post by crossscythe on Nov 30, 2023 14:00:54 GMT
Buses have been taking cash since day dot, surely if there was a major problem with taking cash, it would have come to public attention. With cash, the company keeps the full amount of the profit, without incurring bank charges on each transaction. For cards such as American Express, these charges can have a detrimental impact on a business, as they are very high. There is also a public drive to use cash, various news articles over recent weeks show that more people are using cash. I have seen an increase in fellow customers using cash in bars and shops. We don't want a cashless society. I am not sure how you can lose the takings, I won't divulge in great detail the process, to protect the security of the company and the drivers but as I understand it, material is provided for keeping the money seperate from everything else and then it is lodged. I used to be a catering host on trains and we had to count the stock before we we took our trolley out, and when we got back to work out what we had sold, and if we counted something wrong or didn't notice something was missing when we took the trolley out, we got charged for it. I can't see how you'd end up getting charged as long as you register passengers correctly and take the right money, I assume the till works out how much change to give etc? This is by and large nonsense. Around 70-80% of revenue taken on board buses and trams now is by card payment and the cost to the company per transaction is negligible as the facility is bundled in with the ticket machine contract. In contrast carrying cash on board or storing large amounts of money in a depot makes robbery/attacks more likely and this is reflected in higher insurance premiums, the companies also have to pay for a security van to take cash to the bank and the banks charge a fee for providing change for floats. Cash usage is on the increase. I can't recall in all of my time on this earth ever hearing of a bus being robbed for the cash float. Buses which don't take cash is ILLEGAL, as all public service vehicles MUST take cash and rightly so. |
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donc
Inspector
Posts: 590
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Post by donc on Nov 30, 2023 15:04:43 GMT
Well I had to tap on today went to tap off and the "I am not yet in use" sticker was still covering the machine, so could not tap off again. I don't know if they are doing this to reduce card payments and encourage people to buy mobile tickets but it certainly has been rolled out very badly.
On Tuesday I couldn't tap off again and people were not happy they couldn't get off the bus as I was trying to get the stupid machine to accept my card and blocking their way.
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Post by crossscythe on Nov 30, 2023 15:41:06 GMT
Well I had to tap on today went to tap off and the "I am not yet in use" sticker was still covering the machine, so could not tap off again. I don't know if they are doing this to reduce card payments and encourage people to buy mobile tickets but it certainly has been rolled out very badly. On Tuesday I couldn't tap off again and people were not happy they couldn't get off the bus as I was trying to get the stupid machine to accept my card and blocking their way. Next time, hand the driver a £2 coin, physical cash never fails. 🙂 |
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josh
Driver
Posts: 116
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Post by josh on Nov 30, 2023 17:28:00 GMT
Well I had to tap on today went to tap off and the "I am not yet in use" sticker was still covering the machine, so could not tap off again. I don't know if they are doing this to reduce card payments and encourage people to buy mobile tickets but it certainly has been rolled out very badly. On Tuesday I couldn't tap off again and people were not happy they couldn't get off the bus as I was trying to get the stupid machine to accept my card and blocking their way. If the tap off reader for whatever reason isn't working, you can tap off on the drivers ticket machine as several of the tap off readers don't work. |
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donc
Inspector
Posts: 590
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Post by donc on Nov 30, 2023 17:39:18 GMT
Well I had to tap on today went to tap off and the "I am not yet in use" sticker was still covering the machine, so could not tap off again. I don't know if they are doing this to reduce card payments and encourage people to buy mobile tickets but it certainly has been rolled out very badly. On Tuesday I couldn't tap off again and people were not happy they couldn't get off the bus as I was trying to get the stupid machine to accept my card and blocking their way. If the tap off reader for whatever reason isn't working, you can tap off on the drivers ticket machine as several of the tap off readers don't work. It would help if the drivers new that and told you when you ask not shrug shoulders or say I know nothing about them things and there is no way I am putting my card back on the same reader to be charged again and to the poster above I don't carry coins anymore, it's 2023 a lot of people don't |
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josh
Driver
Posts: 116
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Post by josh on Nov 30, 2023 19:24:24 GMT
If the tap off reader for whatever reason isn't working, you can tap off on the drivers ticket machine as several of the tap off readers don't work. It would help if the drivers new that and told you when you ask not shrug shoulders or say I know nothing about them things and there is no way I am putting my card back on the same reader to be charged again and to the poster above I don't carry coins anymore, it's 2023 a lot of people don't We haven't been educated on the system at all so a lot of drivers aren't sure what's what. However you won't be charged twice as when you tap off on the ticket machine, it says tap off card removed so that then charges you the max fare of £2 or less if you've only travelled say a £1.40 fare distance. |
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