Ticketer Tap Off Reader (Read 2,763 times)

[donc]

I see these have been installed on First Buses this week, what will be the use of these is it just for certain tickets or debit cards transactions is it supposed to make the payment process quicker than the driver's machine.

They look similar to something Mainline had in the 90s, stuck of poles and generally people walk into them rather than use them.

(I just managed to find one on Google and changed thread name).

So are the public now going to have to tap on and tap off the bus like the Oyster card and if so how will tap off be enforced?

[overground]

They’re currently installing them on Doncaster’s fleet but they’re not live yet. My understanding is that it’s being rolled out across First group and it’s similar to an Oyster card scheme but using debit cards etc but drivers will still be able to sell tickets too

[rhole]

If you don't tap out it's going to cost you the single max fare. So it enforces itself.

[donc]

Dec 15, 2022 16:05:29 GMT rhole said:

If you don't tap out it's going to cost you the single max fare. So it enforces itself.

How does that work when there is only one single fare across the whole of Doncaster? Previously £2.20 currently £2.

[crossscythe]

They should go back to Cash Only, paper tickets, job's a good'un. It's so frustrating being held up by some gormless idiot on their mobile phone or waving a bank card at the machine only for it to be rejected and the loud buzzing noise goes off...then they want to try again (usually because there is no money in their account). Meanwhile, the whole bus is held up waiting for them to sort it out.

There was a tap on tap off trial in 2010, it was called Yorcard scheme and it never took off. They should stick to what works, pennies and pounds and paper tickets.

[overground]

Jan 2, 2023 19:45:17 GMT crossscythe said:

They should go back to Cash Only, paper tickets, job's a good'un. It's so frustrating being held up by some gormless idiot on their mobile phone or waving a bank card at the machine only for it to be rejected and the loud buzzing noise goes off...then they want to try again (usually because there is no money in their account). Meanwhile, the whole bus is held up waiting for them to sort it out.

There was a tap on tap off trial in 2010, it was called Yorcard scheme and it never took off. They should stick to what works, pennies and pounds and paper tickets.

Never going to happen though is it, anywhere. I don’t generally carry a lot of cash with me these days, would much rather pay with a card or bank transfer etc wherever possible. Surely it’s better for drivers too not carrying potentially loads of cash

[TC60054]

Jan 2, 2023 19:45:17 GMT crossscythe said:

They should go back to Cash Only, paper tickets, job's a good'un. It's so frustrating being held up by some gormless idiot on their mobile phone or waving a bank card at the machine only for it to be rejected and the loud buzzing noise goes off...then they want to try again (usually because there is no money in their account). Meanwhile, the whole bus is held up waiting for them to sort it out.

There was a tap on tap off trial in 2010, it was called Yorcard scheme and it never took off. They should stick to what works, pennies and pounds and paper tickets.

As a driver I'd rather sit there getting frustrated that someone's card isn't working despite the fact they're insistent that it does, rather than having to deal with sometimes what could be up to £500 of cash that I could potentially lose and have it come out of my wages, or stolen.

[crossscythe]

Jan 7, 2023 13:28:21 GMT TC60054 said:

Jan 2, 2023 19:45:17 GMT crossscythe said:

They should go back to Cash Only, paper tickets, job's a good'un. It's so frustrating being held up by some gormless idiot on their mobile phone or waving a bank card at the machine only for it to be rejected and the loud buzzing noise goes off...then they want to try again (usually because there is no money in their account). Meanwhile, the whole bus is held up waiting for them to sort it out.

There was a tap on tap off trial in 2010, it was called Yorcard scheme and it never took off. They should stick to what works, pennies and pounds and paper tickets.

As a driver I'd rather sit there getting frustrated that someone's card isn't working despite the fact they're insistent that it does, rather than having to deal with sometimes what could be up to £500 of cash that I could potentially lose and have it come out of my wages, or stolen.

Buses have been taking cash since day dot, surely if there was a major problem with taking cash, it would have come to public attention. With cash, the company keeps the full amount of the profit, without incurring bank charges on each transaction. For cards such as American Express, these charges can have a detrimental impact on a business, as they are very high.

There is also a public drive to use cash, various news articles over recent weeks show that more people are using cash. I have seen an increase in fellow customers using cash in bars and shops. We don't want a cashless society.


I am not sure how you can lose the takings, I won't divulge in great detail the process, to protect the security of the company and the drivers but as I understand it, material is provided for keeping the money seperate from everything else and then it is lodged.

I used to be a catering host on trains and we had to count the stock before we we took our trolley out, and when we got back to work out what we had sold, and if we counted something wrong or didn't notice something was missing when we took the trolley out, we got charged for it. I can't see how you'd end up getting charged as long as you register passengers correctly and take the right money, I assume the till works out how much change to give etc?

[overground]

Which ever way you look at it you’re never going to get every single passenger to get on a bus, have their payment method ready, purchase their ticket and sit down. As you’ve said above you get issues with mobile phones/bank cards. With cash payments people don’t always have their money ready and a lot don’t have the correct money so drivers are having to give out change which takes time plus they don’t always have the correct change so then you’ve got another issue and in that case a credit note should be issued which some people don’t want but for years some drivers have just said to the person with a £20 note or whatever “just sit down” so the company loses revenue there.

A lot of people don’t carry a lot of cash nowadays, I generally don’t. It sums it up when there’s fewer ATMs than there was a few years ago.

The issues with drivers carrying the cash itself are they’ve got to pay it all in at the end of the shift and if it is wrong by so much (£2?) for whatever reason then they do get charged or they did. The biggest issue is the security threat - drivers getting robbed, not saying it happens everyday but it happens not just round here but it’s not a new thing.

[crossscythe]

Jan 10, 2023 16:43:58 GMT overground said:

A lot of people don’t carry a lot of cash nowadays, I generally don’t. It sums it up when there’s fewer ATMs than there was a few years ago.


The fewer ATMs, I don't believe are down to lack of use. I commonly have to queue for an ATM, they do see high usage. The reason the banks are shutting them down, and branches, is because of a seperate agenda. And it is not a good agenda.

[60657]

Jan 2, 2023 19:45:17 GMT crossscythe said:

They should go back to Cash Only, paper tickets, job's a good'un. It's so frustrating being held up by some gormless idiot on their mobile phone or waving a bank card at the machine only for it to be rejected and the loud buzzing noise goes off...then they want to try again (usually because there is no money in their account). Meanwhile, the whole bus is held up waiting for them to sort it out.

There was a tap on tap off trial in 2010, it was called Yorcard scheme and it never took off. They should stick to what works, pennies and pounds and paper tickets.

Yes because people rummaging around their purse trying to pay a fare entirely in 5 and 10p's or battling with the driver to be allowed to use a £20 note for a single is so much quicker than contactless. You always get idiots regardless of the technology (or lack of) being used

[donc]

From 29 October, we’re introducing Tap on Tap off, across all our South Yorkshire buses.

Tap on Tap off, is the easiest most convenient way to travel.

No need to choose the ticket to buy upfront, simply tap on with the driver and tap off on the dedicated reader as you get off on every journey and we'll automatically work out the best fare on our buses.

Please note, tap and cap in Doncaster will no longer apply from 29 October, so you MUST remember to tap off when leaving the bus to avoid being overcharged.


What was wrong with tap & cap it worked fine and was one of First's better ideas, shame they are getting rid of it I don't like the sound of tap off, tap off will be fun when the bus is full and people are stood in front of the machine.

[donc]

Today I used tap on tap off three times, the first time it would not let me tap off, I asked the driver and was told "I know nothing about that". No info on whether I should do anything just not my problem. The second time machine was dead and I asked the driver who again knew nothing about it and said just to get off. What is the point of tap off if it doesn't work and why do the drivers not know what to do if it fails.

[kayden11]

It needs to be properly up.and running and drivers well trained on it before it comes live, it's no good having it if it doesn't work as its just a waste of resources, but having these rpos on the vehicles now, I wonder whether they could shed some light on the issue if you were to get off as they were getting on

[crossscythe]

What's to stop people tapping off and remaining on the bus? Every bus has poles in different places and on a busy bus someone could easily tap off and move forward a bit and remain onboard. And when there is a crowd the driver can't see everyone (and his attention will be on the road anyway), people could just walk up and tap off. Unless they are going to deploy Revenue Protection Officers at nearly every bus stop, I can see fare evasion being a problem. Hopefully the powers that be will notice the problems and withdraw it, just like they did with the card payments for TravelMaster, following the fraud.

If people state the destination to the driver when they get on, and buy a ticket from him there, they are less likely to lie about their destination, as if they buy the 3 stops for £1.40 ticket, the driver is likely to remember and pull the bus up 3 stops down (as I have witnessed many times). With this tap off business, the driver will have no knowledge where the customer intends to travel to. Oh and on peak time services, if people are standing, there is the opportunity for the card to be "tapped" in error and undercharge the customer for their journey, e.g. customer gets on at Ecclesfield, holds the handle whilst stood up,card reader picks up the card signal in customer's pocket as the bus drives through Firth Park but the customer is actually staying on to Haymarket.

My feeling is that this will be a big mistake. The train companies are having regular problems with their M tickets and E tickets, with people only paying for a ticket when and if they see an inspector coming down the train and also holding the inspector up whilst they activate it and delaying him from checking everyone else's tickets.