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Post by The Captain on Nov 17, 2023 15:34:13 GMT
How is an electric bus a better way to do things? It's just a different power source. I dare say it's harder to fix an electric bus when the battery breaks than a combustion engine too. I am not sure why First are ordering new vehicles anyway, when they are struggling to turn a profit and have scaled back many routes (X5, 18 etc) to one bus every two hours on evenings/Sundays. Stagecoach Skegness are still operating 1998/1999 AlX400s. The oldest bus in the FSY fleet dates back to 2007. Surely it's better to makes what little profit is possible using existing buses than investing £millions to wait years to break even on them. Skegness. The dumping ground of Stagecoach. You can bet they will never see brand new open toppers just to run 8 months of the year, got to have that magical profit margin for anything like that. And you can bet your bottom dollar those 07 plate B9s have got death certificates wrote out and waiting for next year. Electric buses. Battery breaks you buy new cells. Traction motor breaks you buy a new or refurbished motor. Generator fails you strip it and rebuild it. No gearbox, no hydraulics, pure torque. 73 plate E400MMC or 61 plate Hybrid?? I know what the drivers prefer. |
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Post by teapot42 on Nov 17, 2023 16:06:17 GMT
How is an electric bus a better way to do things? It's just a different power source. I dare say it's harder to fix an electric bus when the battery breaks than a combustion engine too. I am not sure why First are ordering new vehicles anyway, when they are struggling to turn a profit and have scaled back many routes (X5, 18 etc) to one bus every two hours on evenings/Sundays. Stagecoach Skegness are still operating 1998/1999 AlX400s. The oldest bus in the FSY fleet dates back to 2007. Surely it's better to makes what little profit is possible using existing buses than investing £millions to wait years to break even on them. Far less moving parts, much less to go wrong. Solid state electronics are much more reliable than IC engines and all the associated gubbins they rely on. Most parts are modular so it will be a case of swap out whatever is faulty and away you go. Less wear and tear on brakes due to regen meaning less maintenance. No vibrating lump in the back to shake everything loose.
Plenty of funding seems to be available for EVs at the moment, and while the initial investment is higher, running costs are a lot lower and providing they are well made there is no reason why, with a battery swap every 10 years or so they can't go on for 20+ years or more.
EVs also have the advantage that any propulsion emissions can be captured at source, providing the technology is invested in, or can be carbon-free if renewable. Regen will reduce brake particle emissions so better in urban areas all round.
FSY fleet age will be skewed by the fact they need Euro 6 vehicles for the ULEZ.
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donc
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Post by donc on Nov 17, 2023 19:10:59 GMT
How is an electric bus a better way to do things? It's just a different power source. I dare say it's harder to fix an electric bus when the battery breaks than a combustion engine too. I am not sure why First are ordering new vehicles anyway, when they are struggling to turn a profit and have scaled back many routes (X5, 18 etc) to one bus every two hours on evenings/Sundays. Stagecoach Skegness are still operating 1998/1999 AlX400s. The oldest bus in the FSY fleet dates back to 2007. Surely it's better to makes what little profit is possible using existing buses than investing £millions to wait years to break even on them. Are you on a wind up? So First let every drop out of the old aging fleet then what? Suddenly they will be able to buy hundreds of buses all at once brand new? What happens if there is no profit when the current buses are so old they can barely move. Crosscythe the 1900s just rang they want you back in that century time to get in your very old time machine and head back there. |
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Post by kayden11 on Nov 17, 2023 19:24:45 GMT
They need these new electric buses as it goes well with the image of the revenue protection officers in their lovely black uniforms, that's where the 50 pound penalty fare is going, and when they have got enough maybe just maybe they can put evening buses back to hourly or frequently, hence why first Somerset have closed one of their depots, in my opinion hands down stagecoach are one of the the biggest operator in the UK, if not the biggest, I wonder what the state of the seats will be like when the 23 plate goes back off loan with the adoring public
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Post by overground on Nov 17, 2023 20:20:29 GMT
I believe it’s at York now - been swapped for 36515 which was on the X78 Wednesday |
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Post by crossscythe on Nov 17, 2023 23:49:39 GMT
How is an electric bus a better way to do things? It's just a different power source. I dare say it's harder to fix an electric bus when the battery breaks than a combustion engine too. I am not sure why First are ordering new vehicles anyway, when they are struggling to turn a profit and have scaled back many routes (X5, 18 etc) to one bus every two hours on evenings/Sundays. Stagecoach Skegness are still operating 1998/1999 AlX400s. The oldest bus in the FSY fleet dates back to 2007. Surely it's better to makes what little profit is possible using existing buses than investing £millions to wait years to break even on them. Are you on a wind up? So First let every drop out of the old aging fleet then what? Suddenly they will be able to buy hundreds of buses all at once brand new? What happens if there is no profit when the current buses are so old they can barely move. Crosscythe the 1900s just rang they want you back in that century time to get in your very old time machine and head back there. Is 16 years so old that a bus can barely move? The 07 plate B9 I was on earlier flew up Jenkin Road with ease. Only the engineers at Olive Grove will know if it's unfeasable to continue with the older B9s and the 09 plate Eclipses but historically, buses at Olive Grove have lasted far longer. The ALX400 B7s did 19 years and some of the R reg B10 Renowns did 22 years (after a brief spell at Bradford). |
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Post by crossscythe on Nov 17, 2023 23:55:38 GMT
They need these new electric buses as it goes well with the image of the revenue protection officers in their lovely black uniforms, that's where the 50 pound penalty fare is going, and when they have got enough maybe just maybe they can put evening buses back to hourly or frequently, hence why first Somerset have closed one of their depots, in my opinion hands down stagecoach are one of the the biggest operator in the UK, if not the biggest, I wonder what the state of the seats will be like when the 23 plate goes back off loan with the adoring public I've not seen the RPOs yet. Do they wear stab vests? Stagecoach up their game when they are operating in areas with direct competition (Sheffield for example) but where they are sole operator, they aren't all that. For example, the 52 at night times when First aren't running, can be unreliable, with buses often missing. I'd say First are more reliable in Sheffield. But then again the drivers at Stagecoach seem happier. |
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Post by The Captain on Nov 18, 2023 0:11:09 GMT
They need these new electric buses as it goes well with the image of the revenue protection officers in their lovely black uniforms, that's where the 50 pound penalty fare is going, and when they have got enough maybe just maybe they can put evening buses back to hourly or frequently, hence why first Somerset have closed one of their depots, in my opinion hands down stagecoach are one of the the biggest operator in the UK, if not the biggest, I wonder what the state of the seats will be like when the 23 plate goes back off loan with the adoring public I've not seen the RPOs yet. Do they wear stab vests? Stagecoach up their game when they are operating in areas with direct competition (Sheffield for example) but where they are sole operator, they aren't all that. For example, the 52 at night times when First aren't running, can be unreliable, with buses often missing. I'd say First are more reliable in Sheffield. But then again the drivers at Stagecoach seem happier. Unreliable because the running times are unrealistic. In the weekday and Saturday nights there is only 4 buses out on the 52, 5 on the 120. Thursday to Saturday Stagecoach have put 2 extras in on the 120 between Fulwood and City. Sunday nights it's 4 buses on the 120s and 3 on the 52s. Those late board drivers earn their pay. |
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Post by kayden11 on Nov 18, 2023 1:56:27 GMT
I agree crossscythe, I believe they wear stab proof vests, they have introduced them in west yorkshire for first in Leeds, Bradford, Halifax and Huddersfield, I do think stagecoach drivers look happier definitely
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Post by teapot42 on Nov 18, 2023 10:06:10 GMT
Is 16 years so old that a bus can barely move? The 07 plate B9 I was on earlier flew up Jenkin Road with ease. Only the engineers at Olive Grove will know if it's unfeasable to continue with the older B9s and the 09 plate Eclipses but historically, buses at Olive Grove have lasted far longer. The ALX400 B7s did 19 years and some of the R reg B10 Renowns did 22 years (after a brief spell at Bradford). Thing is, you can't just decide a bus has finally had it and pop out to the bus shop and come home with a new one the same day. Lead times can be lengthy, especially for larger orders, and funding needs to be arranged. Older vehicles are also more likely to break down, especially if run for long hours 6 or 7 days a week.
It seems like the Firsts and Stagecoaches of this world have got rid of the services that only ran for part of the day so were ideal for older buses and most of the fleet now runs for 15-18 hours a day.
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donc
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Post by donc on Nov 18, 2023 11:35:07 GMT
Is 16 years so old that a bus can barely move? The 07 plate B9 I was on earlier flew up Jenkin Road with ease. Only the engineers at Olive Grove will know if it's unfeasable to continue with the older B9s and the 09 plate Eclipses but historically, buses at Olive Grove have lasted far longer. The ALX400 B7s did 19 years and some of the R reg B10 Renowns did 22 years (after a brief spell at Bradford). Thing is, you can't just decide a bus has finally had it and pop out to the bus shop and come home with a new one the same day. Lead times can be lengthy, especially for larger orders, and funding needs to be arranged. Older vehicles are also more likely to break down, especially if run for long hours 6 or 7 days a week.
It seems like the Firsts and Stagecoaches of this world have got rid of the services that only ran for part of the day so were ideal for older buses and most of the fleet now runs for 15-18 hours a day.
This is not strictly true if you take Service 65 for example it may only run 5 times a day but the bus allocated to it runs all day so part day services can work if the bus goes onto other routes: bustimes.org/vehicles/fsyo-63041 |
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Post by The Captain on Nov 18, 2023 13:46:51 GMT
Thing is, you can't just decide a bus has finally had it and pop out to the bus shop and come home with a new one the same day. Lead times can be lengthy, especially for larger orders, and funding needs to be arranged. Older vehicles are also more likely to break down, especially if run for long hours 6 or 7 days a week. It seems like the Firsts and Stagecoaches of this world have got rid of the services that only ran for part of the day so were ideal for older buses and most of the fleet now runs for 15-18 hours a day.
This is not strictly true if you take Service 65 for example it may only run 5 times a day but the bus allocated to it runs all day so part day services can work if the bus goes onto other routes: bustimes.org/vehicles/fsyo-63041Olive Grove Charlotte Rd usually has well over a dozen buses sat inbetween schools, usefull for changeovers or engineering requirements. Stagecoach also have a couple of comebacks, 783 Stocksbridge and a peak time extra on the 25 spring to mind. |
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Post by tom123 on Nov 18, 2023 14:20:53 GMT
They need these new electric buses as it goes well with the image of the revenue protection officers in their lovely black uniforms, that's where the 50 pound penalty fare is going, and when they have got enough maybe just maybe they can put evening buses back to hourly or frequently, hence why first Somerset have closed one of their depots, in my opinion hands down stagecoach are one of the the biggest operator in the UK, if not the biggest, I wonder what the state of the seats will be like when the 23 plate goes back off loan with the adoring public I've not seen the RPOs yet. Do they wear stab vests? Stagecoach up their game when they are operating in areas with direct competition (Sheffield for example) but where they are sole operator, they aren't all that. For example, the 52 at night times when First aren't running, can be unreliable, with buses often missing. I'd say First are more reliable in Sheffield. But then again the drivers at Stagecoach seem happier. in my opinion both operators unreliable lost count in last 4 weeks on how 51 keeps been cancelled or missing 17:26 service to lodge moor for example or 16:42 service towards lodge moor 52A and 120 just equally as unreliable |
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Post by overground on Nov 18, 2023 15:18:34 GMT
Are you on a wind up? So First let every drop out of the old aging fleet then what? Suddenly they will be able to buy hundreds of buses all at once brand new? What happens if there is no profit when the current buses are so old they can barely move. Crosscythe the 1900s just rang they want you back in that century time to get in your very old time machine and head back there. Is 16 years so old that a bus can barely move? The 07 plate B9 I was on earlier flew up Jenkin Road with ease. Only the engineers at Olive Grove will know if it's unfeasable to continue with the older B9s and the 09 plate Eclipses but historically, buses at Olive Grove have lasted far longer. The ALX400 B7s did 19 years and some of the R reg B10 Renowns did 22 years (after a brief spell at Bradford). “Can barley move” no that’s wrong, they’re roadworthy. I’ve said it before, I like the B9s and I always have done but the older ones are at the age now where they’re getting past it - let’s face it some of them aren’t far off a million miles. Major unit failures keep cropping up (engines/gearboxes/axles) which don’t come cheap especially on those and they often require more work doing from inspections than they once did. The chassis are better on some than others but some are let’s say showing their age especially around the back ends. Particularly the unrefurbished ones look tired inside and out. You cannot run buses forever |
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