Changes to off peak tickets (Read 1,275 times)

[mrmoose]

The new restrictions appear to apply to all local journeys (on all operators on those routes - such as TPE and XC), and mean off peak day returns can now not be used before 9:30am, and also between 4pm and 7pm. 

Northern Rail is introducing changes to the times that customers can use off-peak tickets as part of its franchise agreement with the Department for Transport.



The changes will take effect from Monday 8 September and will mean that off-peak tickets can no longer be used at peak times during weekday evenings on local rail services in Greater Manchester, West Yorkshire, South Yorkshire, along the Newcastle – Hexham line and some associated routes*.



Customers who currently use off-peak tickets during the evening peak will either have to travel earlier or later, or buy an anytime ticket.



The majority of customers who travel in the evening peak already buy season tickets or anytime fares and won’t be affected by this change. They could also find their trains are less crowded.



Richard Allan, Commercial Director, Northern Rail said: “The majority of customers who travel at peak times, such as those with season tickets, will be unaffected by these changes but we want to make sure that those who are know about what is happening.”



“We have consulted extensively with local stakeholders and with Passenger Focus on the detail of this change, which is part of our new franchise agreement that was announced in March.”



Full details of the changes are available on the Northern Rail website (northernrail.org/off-peak) or by speaking to station staff. These changes apply to all rail services, not just those operated by Northern, on these routes and between these times.



Northern expects some customers who use off-peak tickets will change their travel times, but others will buy a different ticket to travel at peak time.



Regular travellers could benefit from season tickets, which can be purchased for a week, month or year and offer significant discounts.



The changes are being made after the Department for Transport asked Northern to look at several options to help reduce subsidy as part of its new franchise agreement.



The change to off-peak tickets is the only option that has been taken forward and will be used to reduce the cost of the railway to taxpayers by reducing subsidy to Northern.



In addition to the changes to off-peak tickets, the franchise agreement includes commitments to invest in more customer information systems, better retailing facilities and environmental initiatives. Over the course of the 22 month franchise over £6million will be invested to improve facilities for customers.

[mrmoose]

For those who occasionally use the trains - these changes came into effect on Monday 8th September. Any journey that involves travelling within South Yorkshire between 1601 and 1829 must now be on an Anytime ticket only. Apparently, this includes journeys where you start the journey before 1601, but change trains during the restricted hours (e.g travel from Doncaster to Barnsley, at 1540 now requires an anytime ticket, as the second part of the journey from Meadowhall is during the restricted hours). It also includes TPE and XC trains on routes they share with Northern, such as Sheffield to Doncaster.

[snowdonranger]

Am I the only person who thinks these changes actually make sense?

Anyone who has ever traveled in the evening peak will know just how crowded it can get on local trains.

You could argue that they should provide extra seating capacity or improve frequency, but as transport enthusiasts we know it's just not as easy as that.

A good proportion of those travelling in the evening peak have started their day before 9:30 so will already have an anytime ticket or season ticket. The people it will hit hardest is the leasure traveler, who could in theory adjust their travel plans with little or no inconvenience.

If I'm using the train I try to time it to avoid the busiest services anyway. And besides, it usually works out far better value to purchase a Travelmaster ticket anyway.

I speak from personal experience of course, others may not agree with me.

What do others think?

Regards,
Darren.

[DPL233 (33LUG)]

Sept 12, 2014 8:00:47 GMT mrmoose said:

For those who occasionally use the trains - these changes came into effect on Monday 8th September. Any journey that involves travelling within South Yorkshire between 1601 and 1829 must now be on an Anytime ticket only. Apparently, this includes journeys where you start the journey before 1601, but change trains during the restricted hours (e.g travel from Doncaster to Barnsley, at 1540 now requires an anytime ticket, as the second part of the journey from Meadowhall is during the restricted hours). It also includes TPE and XC trains on routes they share with Northern, such as Sheffield to Doncaster.

But according to the details put out, the TPE & XC restrictions are on routes where Northern set the fares.

Yet if you look at most restricted journeys on brfares.com they show the fare setter as SYPTE / WYPTE / GMPTE, not Northern.

[snowdonranger]

Sept 12, 2014 10:10:09 GMT DPL233 (33LUG) said:

Sept 12, 2014 8:00:47 GMT mrmoose said:

For those who occasionally use the trains - these changes came into effect on Monday 8th September. Any journey that involves travelling within South Yorkshire between 1601 and 1829 must now be on an Anytime ticket only. Apparently, this includes journeys where you start the journey before 1601, but change trains during the restricted hours (e.g travel from Doncaster to Barnsley, at 1540 now requires an anytime ticket, as the second part of the journey from Meadowhall is during the restricted hours). It also includes TPE and XC trains on routes they share with Northern, such as Sheffield to Doncaster.

But according to the details put out, the TPE & XC restrictions are on routes where Northern set the fares.

Yet if you look at most restricted journeys on brfares.com they show the fare setter as SYPTE / WYPTE / GMPTE, not Northern.

I read somewhere that it's not who sets the fare but who receives the largest share of revenue on a jointly operated route that affects whether restrictions are put in place on that route.

Presumably Northern receives the largest share of Doncaster - Sheffield revenue.

It might seem a little confusing to the average traveller as only Northern have been told to do this as part of their franchise agreement, when really it affects any journey that starts and finishes within the county area.

From what I can tell journeys across boundaries i.e. between Adwick and South Elmsall are not affected.

Regards,
Darren.

[DPL233 (33LUG)]

Sept 12, 2014 11:21:44 GMT snowdonranger said:

Sept 12, 2014 10:10:09 GMT DPL233 (33LUG) said:

But according to the details put out, the TPE & XC restrictions are on routes where Northern set the fares.

Yet if you look at most restricted journeys on brfares.com they show the fare setter as SYPTE / WYPTE / GMPTE, not Northern.

I read somewhere that it's not who sets the fare but who receives the largest share of revenue on a jointly operated route that affects whether restrictions are put in place on that route.

Presumably Northern receives the largest share of Doncaster - Sheffield revenue.

It might seem a little confusing to the average traveller as only Northern have been told to do this as part of their franchise agreement, when really it affects any journey that starts and finishes within the county area.

From what I can tell journeys across boundaries i.e. between Adwick and South Elmsall are not affected.

Regards,
Darren.

Adwick - South Elmsall is affected as it's a boundary station.

[mrmoose]

Sept 12, 2014 9:16:09 GMT snowdonranger said:

Am I the only person who thinks these changes actually make sense?

Anyone who has ever traveled in the evening peak will know just how crowded it can get on local trains.

You could argue that they should provide extra seating capacity or improve frequency, but as transport enthusiasts we know it's just not as easy as that.

A good proportion of those travelling in the evening peak have started their day before 9:30 so will already have an anytime ticket or season ticket. The people it will hit hardest is the leasure traveler, who could in theory adjust their travel plans with little or no inconvenience.

If I'm using the train I try to time it to avoid the busiest services anyway. And besides, it usually works out far better value to purchase a Travelmaster ticket anyway.

I speak from personal experience of course, others may not agree with me.

What do others think?

Regards,
Darren.

I do agree with peak time restrictions on some services as these are usually heavily overcrowded, but I don't think peak fare should apply for journeys heading against the peak time flow. Somebody catching the train from say Penistone into Sheffield at 5:40pm on a fairly empty train would pay the same peak fare as somebody catching the 5:36pm departure from Sheffield to Penistone which is often full and standing. A more logical way would be to apply restrictions to trains leaving the major Northern "hubs" during the rush hour - Such as Sheffield (and meadowhall), Leeds, Manchester etc. Over in west yorkshire, the restrictions also apply to the Metro version of the Travelmaster day ticket. 

[snowdonranger]

Sept 12, 2014 11:46:33 GMT DPL233 (33LUG) said:

Sept 12, 2014 11:21:44 GMT snowdonranger said:

I read somewhere that it's not who sets the fare but who receives the largest share of revenue on a jointly operated route that affects whether restrictions are put in place on that route.

Presumably Northern receives the largest share of Doncaster - Sheffield revenue.

It might seem a little confusing to the average traveller as only Northern have been told to do this as part of their franchise agreement, when really it affects any journey that starts and finishes within the county area.

From what I can tell journeys across boundaries i.e. between Adwick and South Elmsall are not affected.

Regards,
Darren.

Adwick - South Elmsall is affected as it's a boundary station.

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I was referring to services that stopped at these stations rather than actual journeys between the 2 stations themselves. Maybe a bad choice of stations to use as an example. Seeing as South Elmsall is in West Yorkshire but South Yorkshire area tickets are valid to/from it.

I believe Moorthorpe, Darton and Denby Dale have similar arrangements also.

Darren.

[snowdonranger]

Sept 12, 2014 11:46:58 GMT mrmoose said:

Over in west yorkshire, the restrictions also apply to the Metro version of the Travelmaster day ticket. 

Yes, but if I remember correctly the Metro day rover isn't valid on trains until 09:30 Mon-Fri thereby making it an off peak ticket.

On the other hand, here in South yorkshire the PTE did away with the off peak rail day ticket (Day Tripper) and instead we now have the new 'One Day Travelmaster Gold' which is valid at anytime on rail and bus services and the slightly cheaper 'South Yorkshire Connect' which is valid all day but on busses only.

I remember that back in the 80's the Metro Day Rover ticket wasn't valid for train travel in the evening peak. Back then I think it was 15:30 to 18:00.

So really we have come full circle.

Incidentally, back then a Metro Day Rover was just 50p, and the South Yorkshire equivalent which I think was called a 'Diamond' was a mere 30p. I remember the slogan "It's a gem of a ticket"

Regards,
Darren.