|
|
Post by rothlad on Jun 5, 2018 10:41:03 GMT
Got me thinking recently with the recent network changes that we've had over the last few years, are there any noticeable examples of where once frequent services operated and have either been downgraded or withdrawn completely?
One what sticks out for me is the former 70/71 Sheffield - Prince of Wales Road Circulars. Once a service every 6-8 minutes in the daytime and 15 minutes evenings and Sundays each way around the loop. What happened to these services to warrant their withdrawal? We now have the 24/25 dissecting Prince of Wales Road at Castlebeck Avenue and Hastilar Road, but only a hourly 18 service up Prince of Wales Road between Darnall and Manor Top. There is no bus service at all along Park Grange Road since the 7 (City - Meadowhall via Darnall) service was withdrawn in 2012 when the SBP was formed, leaving just the trams. The only area that seems to have been unaffected is Staniforth Road which has always had a good service anyway on the 52 corridor.
As a side note, when was the 70/71 withdrawn and become the 7 - thinking around 1998 but not 100% sure?
Are there any more examples across South Yorkshire that people can think of? |
 |
|
|
|
Post by manclad on Jun 5, 2018 17:13:45 GMT
Wasn't it the tram that killed off those routes?
My great grandma lived in Norfolk Park in the late 80's/early 90's and remember the 70/71.
|
|
|
|
|
Post by dougie on Jun 5, 2018 18:51:08 GMT
Not just the 70/71 but also the Terrier 10/11 (Parson Cross - City - Norfolk Park - Darnall) and lately the Mainline 711 (which replaced the "short" workings on the 71/71 and extended to Parson Cross too).
No buses in Norfolk Park and only an hourly service down Prince Of Wales Road (from Manor Top to Darnall), with the First 18, as you say.
But then, back in the day, Middlewood terminus had a service every five minutes into town on the 81/82/83/84/88 - plus regular services from Catch Bar Lane past the top end of Hillsborough Park into town (79/89... even the Sheffield Omnibus 18 every fifteen minutes - the 18 was kind of similar to the modern 35). Now there's only a half hourly service on the 35/135 from Catch Bar Lane and no buses into town from Middlewood.
|
|
|
|
|
Post by rothlad on Jun 7, 2018 10:04:55 GMT
The tram helped kill off the route, especially when the 70/71 was replaced with the 7, it never was very reliable. Can't remember much about the Terrier 10/11 routes, you got any more details on that Dougie? Was the 49 to Darnall from Manor Top running at this time, or did this come after the 10/11?
|
|
|
|
|
Post by dougie on Jun 7, 2018 21:57:18 GMT
The tram helped kill off the route, especially when the 70/71 was replaced with the 7, it never was very reliable. Can't remember much about the Terrier 10/11 routes, you got any more details on that Dougie? Was the 49 to Darnall from Manor Top running at this time, or did this come after the 10/11? Back in the (early) '90s, the services from town past the Herries Road entrance to the Northern General generally terminated at Southey Green (the old 20/22 ran via the current 97/98 route, but terminating at the roundabout in Southey by the library) or ran through to Hillsborough (the old 97 ran like the current 20 from town to Southey and then down to Kilner Way and on to Hillsborough, like the current 97). There were a few journeys on the 97A, which ran like the current 20 from town to the roundabout in Parson Cross where ASDA now is (albeit well before the Supermarket opened), but generally services towards Parson Cross/ Ecclesfield were via Hillsborough or Owlerton. The 79/89 (and 779/789) were circulars around Parson Cross/ Ecclesfield, a bit like the 97/98 were a few years ago. Mainline eventually split the out into a frequent Eager Beaver route (89 via Hillsborough and Yew Lane) and the less frequent 79/779 (via Donovan Road and Monteney). The 53 (and previously the 49) ran via Owlerton to Wordsworth Avenue, like the current 7/8/8a. Yorkshire Terrier spotted a gap in the market - a service from Parson Cross via the Northern General into town - flood the route with Leyland Nationals - you provide something different to Mainline, run round a loop in Parson Cross (a little like the current 32 north of Deerlands). This was later extended through to Darnall like the 70/71 route through Norfolk Park - back when Darnall had a popular Morrisons (where Lidl is now), so seemed to be more of a draw for passengers. Whilst the 70/71 was the same as the current tram via Park Grange Road, the 10 (later?) diverted via Arbourthrne Road into Arbourthorne, serving Eastern Avenue like the modern 41 does now. I think the 10 was every twenty minutes at first, but then beefed up with the 11 to become every ten minutes, but different at each end. For a while the 11 ran beyond Manor Top into Fishponds (instead of down Prince Of Wales Road into Darrnall). At Parson Cross, the 11 served Buchanan Road - Terrier used to be good at coming up with new links rather than just totally copying existing routes (some copying, certainly, but not as blatant as some of the independent operators at the time!). The 11's route in Parson Cross was handed over to the Terrier 127, with all (Norfolk Park-bound) journeys running via the 10 route around Margetson etc. The direct link from Manor Top/ Norfolk Park to the Northern General must have been fairly popular, as Mainline retaliated with the 771 (which was almost a copy of the 10). Back in the '90s, the 49 was South Riding's attempt on the western half of the Gleadless Valley (the 46 having taken a chunk of the market on the Leighton Road side). Instead of copying the Mainline 48 (which ran via Olive Grove depot, like the modern 1/1a), the 49 ran via Heeley and Rushdale Road in Meersbrook). Under Yorkshire Traction, the services that they inherited (from South Riding, Yorkshire Terrier etc) were slowly trimmed and cut), so that you ended up with convoluted routes like the 10 being replaced by the 49 - so that passengers for Prince Of Wales Road had to sit on the bus going round Gleadless Valley etc. I don't have the dates for these changes, but I think the 10 being replaced by the 49 would probably be post-millennium? |
|
|
|
|
Post by bususer on Sept 5, 2018 14:37:04 GMT
It depends how far you want to go back. In the early 90s there were many more buses running especially along busy corridors, for example Hillsborough to city centre.
|
|
|
|
|
Post by crossscythe on Feb 17, 2022 22:37:04 GMT
I'm surprised there are no longer bus services up Park Grange Road. For somewhere so densely populated and hilly, I'd have thought it would be a much valued route.
|
|
|
|
|
Post by alexander on Feb 18, 2022 9:54:17 GMT
I'm surprised there are no longer bus services up Park Grange Road. For somewhere so densely populated and hilly, I'd have thought it would be a much valued route. There are 7 trams every hour. |
|
|
|
|
Post by crossscythe on Feb 19, 2022 3:31:09 GMT
I'm surprised there are no longer bus services up Park Grange Road. For somewhere so densely populated and hilly, I'd have thought it would be a much valued route. There are 7 trams every hour. True, but the tram stops are spread out a considerable distance over a large hill. The bus stops allowed more localised stopping. |
|
|
|
|
Post by duncan on Feb 19, 2022 7:57:55 GMT
There are 7 trams every hour. True, but the tram stops are spread out a considerable distance over a large hill. The bus stops allowed more localised stopping. The tram also covers the "OLD " part of the City Centre, away from all the areas the council are supporting for growth. |
|
|
|
|
Post by crossscythe on Feb 19, 2022 10:22:45 GMT
True, but the tram stops are spread out a considerable distance over a large hill. The bus stops allowed more localised stopping. The tram also covers the "OLD " part of the City Centre, away from all the areas the council are supporting for growth. Yes, a very good point. The council would much rather we visited Moorfoot, Furnival Gate. I suspect they have drove businesses out of the OLD party of the City, indeed Stone The Crows had signs up complaining about the rent the council charged them for the Barker's Pool store. I do wonder if this move if the city centre attractions to the south will spark a demise in the Supertram. The number 7 used to run right through Moorfoot, providing a direct link to what is now Moor Markets. The Supertram runs to...Castle Square...home of the former C&A/Primark (long since closed), the former markets (long since demolished) & the weird glory hole golf club place. |
|
|
|
|
Post by The Captain on Feb 19, 2022 12:23:11 GMT
There are 7 trams every hour. True, but the tram stops are spread out a considerable distance over a large hill. The bus stops allowed more localised stopping. Buses have been dead ducks on the Norfolk Park ever since the 70/71 and 723/732 circulars failed and the 7 that replaced them. No demand at all. |
|
|
|
|
Post by dougie on Feb 19, 2022 20:48:28 GMT
Worth remembering that the population density at Norfolk Park is a lot less than it was in the 1990s when the trams were introduced and Mainline's 70/71/771 were completion with Terrier's 10/11 - there's a great picture in "The Region's Favourite" (the book about SYT/Mainline) that shows just how many high rises were in that neck of the woods
I'm a little surprised that we haven't seen the PTE "encourage" some token service there (e.g. the Stagecoach 53 from Mansfield), as a box-ticking exercise - but then there are no buses from Middlewood to Hillsborough/ Sheffield any more , the only bus from Ridgeway Road to the City Centre goes via Graves Park/ Meersbrook (the hourly 18 - rather than the frequent 64 via Manor Top/ Arbourthorne) - there are only five buses an hour along Langsett Road these days rather than dozens per hour - I suppose it's better for buses to focus on the areas that only they can serve rather than competing with the trams
|
|
|
|
|
Post by The Captain on Feb 19, 2022 22:17:59 GMT
Worth remembering that the population density at Norfolk Park is a lot less than it was in the 1990s when the trams were introduced and Mainline's 70/71/771 were completion with Terrier's 10/11 - there's a great picture in "The Region's Favourite" (the book about SYT/Mainline) that shows just how many high rises were in that neck of the woods I'm a little surprised that we haven't seen the PTE "encourage" some token service there (e.g. the Stagecoach 53 from Mansfield), as a box-ticking exercise - but then there are no buses from Middlewood to Hillsborough/ Sheffield any more , the only bus from Ridgeway Road to the City Centre goes via Graves Park/ Meersbrook (the hourly 18 - rather than the frequent 64 via Manor Top/ Arbourthorne) - there are only five buses an hour along Langsett Road these days rather than dozens per hour - I suppose it's better for buses to focus on the areas that only they can serve rather than competing with the trams 53 Mansfield 😮 It goes round the houses etc once it gets into Derbyshire. |
|
|
|
|
Post by crossscythe on Feb 20, 2022 6:52:04 GMT
Worth remembering that the population density at Norfolk Park is a lot less than it was in the 1990s when the trams were introduced and Mainline's 70/71/771 were completion with Terrier's 10/11 - there's a great picture in "The Region's Favourite" (the book about SYT/Mainline) that shows just how many high rises were in that neck of the woods I'm a little surprised that we haven't seen the PTE "encourage" some token service there (e.g. the Stagecoach 53 from Mansfield), as a box-ticking exercise - but then there are no buses from Middlewood to Hillsborough/ Sheffield any more , the only bus from Ridgeway Road to the City Centre goes via Graves Park/ Meersbrook (the hourly 18 - rather than the frequent 64 via Manor Top/ Arbourthorne) - there are only five buses an hour along Langsett Road these days rather than dozens per hour - I suppose it's better for buses to focus on the areas that only they can serve rather than competing with the trams I'm surprised Winn Gardens (spelling?) doesn't have a bus service, as that could be a direct way of competing with the trams. Didn't the First 58 used to run along Middlewood Road to Oughtibridge and so on? I suspect a lot of the demand at that end fell when the Middlewood Hospital closed in 1998. I think there will always be a business case for buses competing with trams, as buses can get that bit closer. For example the 120 runs directly in to the heart of Waterthorpe, Westfield and Halfway Streetfields. Bus fares tend to be a lower cost than tram fares also, due to the fundamental operation of buses. I only really travel on the tram between the City and Meadowhall and even then I prefer the bus, as it is quicker (plus less annoying little darlings on Saturdays going to Centertainment to spend their pocket money). |
|
|
