HS3 (Read 668 times)

[donc]

Boris has stated he wants HS2 building between Leeds & Manchester is that enough to revive the railways in the north or does it need to go through to Liverpool and Sheffield/Doncaster/ Bradford and Hull to bring the north into the 21C and what about York & the North East do they  need to be included?

[duncan]

Jul 27, 2019 9:46:22 GMT donc said:

Boris has stated he wants HS2 building between Leeds & Manchester is that enough to revive the railways in the north or does it need to go through to Liverpool and Sheffield/Doncaster/ Bradford and Hull to bring the north into the 21C and what about York & the North East do they  need to be included?

Can't really see any need for it to serve Sheffield there is a better case for it serving Rotherham. Leeds and Manchester yes.

[lv426]

I'm more familar with the geography east of the pennines than the west. What I'd say about
> Leeds - Hull is that, aside from the immediate Selby area, the existing formation would be quite capable of fairly low cost upgrade to much faster running as it is straight and level. And much of the formation east of Gilberdyke is wide enough for four tracks (as it did, indeed, have such a structure in the 60s). Traffic and demand and even latent demand are nothing like that for Leeds - Manchester. I'd suggest therefore that a shared route with higher line speeds Leeds - Hull, joined with a much improved Leeds - Manchester HS3, would give East Coast connectivity as good as it needs to be. Short intersection onto the ECML would get you to York.
> Rotherham - I do not understand the desperation among some to "connect" this scruffy, third-rate, small town beyond what it has at present, I would not categorise it as a high priority for High Speed rail. I don't even get the repeated suggestions to resurrect Masboro and expect long-distance services to call there.

[donc]

Jul 29, 2019 11:26:42 GMT lv426 said:

I'm more familar with the geography east of the pennines than the west. What I'd say about
> Leeds - Hull is that, aside from the immediate Selby area, the existing formation would be quite capable of fairly low cost upgrade to much faster running as it is straight and level. And much of the formation east of Gilberdyke is wide enough for four tracks (as it did, indeed, have such a structure in the 60s). Traffic and demand and even latent demand are nothing like that for Leeds - Manchester. I'd suggest therefore that a shared route with higher line speeds Leeds - Hull, joined with a much improved Leeds - Manchester HS3, would give East Coast connectivity as good as it needs to be. Short intersection onto the ECML would get you to York.
> Rotherham - I do not understand the desperation among some to "connect" this scruffy, third-rate, small town beyond what it has at present, I would not categorise it as a high priority for High Speed rail. I don't even get the repeated suggestions to resurrect Masboro and expect long-distance services to call there.

Dan Jarvis has proposed a new station for Rotherham, Rotherham to be fair chose to move it's railway station 30 years ago and it has been revamped numerous times and now has the tram train, I really don't see the need for cross country services to stop at Rotherham now they have increased access to Meadowhall and Sheffield.

There surely cannot be a demand for a second Rotherham station it would be as ridiculous as Thorne having two stations when there really isn't the demand.

Rotherham is very lucky to have the tram train and should appreciate what it has, I doubt most of the fast services would want an extra stop in Rotherham surely that is the whole point of fast services you commute to the big stations to catch them.

I do think if HS2 ever happens they should reconsider and bring Meadowhall back the Sheffield idea is lunacy they will get one train a day and the rest will speed from Nottingham to Leeds without stopping, Sheffield council have made a huge mistake getting this re-routed.

[duncan]

Jul 30, 2019 9:54:16 GMT donc said:

Jul 29, 2019 11:26:42 GMT lv426 said:

I'm more familar with the geography east of the pennines than the west. What I'd say about
> Leeds - Hull is that, aside from the immediate Selby area, the existing formation would be quite capable of fairly low cost upgrade to much faster running as it is straight and level. And much of the formation east of Gilberdyke is wide enough for four tracks (as it did, indeed, have such a structure in the 60s). Traffic and demand and even latent demand are nothing like that for Leeds - Manchester. I'd suggest therefore that a shared route with higher line speeds Leeds - Hull, joined with a much improved Leeds - Manchester HS3, would give East Coast connectivity as good as it needs to be. Short intersection onto the ECML would get you to York.
> Rotherham - I do not understand the desperation among some to "connect" this scruffy, third-rate, small town beyond what it has at present, I would not categorise it as a high priority for High Speed rail. I don't even get the repeated suggestions to resurrect Masboro and expect long-distance services to call there.

There surely cannot be a demand for a second Rotherham station it would be as ridiculous as Thorne having two stations when there really isn't the demand.

Rotherham is very lucky to have the tram train and should appreciate what it haa.

I do think if HS2 ever happens they should reconsider and bring Meadowhall back the Sheffield idea is lunacy they will get one train a day and the rest will speed from Nottingham to Leeds without stopping, Sheffield council have made a huge mistake getting this re-routed.

Lucky to have the team train?? That's a good one. Have you seen the loading on it? Pensioners and little else.
Maybe because it just duplicates much more frequent bus services that actually run.
Once again the Sheffield centric powers that be are slewing things towards the city that has so little appeal.
Rotherham is the fastest growing part of the region but petty bias yet again sees the town being done down.
Remember AMP is Rotherham. Not Sheffield.

[darnall42]

Boris will spout any rubbish to keep northern Tory MPs on his side during the brexit rubbish ,just like it was rubbish about the ammount of money that would be spent on the NHS after brexit,

[lv426]

Jul 31, 2019 20:20:34 GMT duncan said:

Remember AMP is Rotherham. Not Sheffield.

The political location of that (excellent) facility is relevant to the siting of a Railway station how, exactly? The term "in Rotherham" (as regards a railway station) would tend to imply somewhere that's fairly central. If, in fact, the AMP warrants a HS2 station, then a closer description would be "Waverley".

[duncan]

Aug 1, 2019 11:27:09 GMT lv426 said:

Jul 31, 2019 20:20:34 GMT duncan said:

Remember AMP is Rotherham. Not Sheffield.

The political location of that (excellent) facility is relevant to the siting of a Railway station how, exactly? The term "in Rotherham" (as regards a railway station) would tend to imply somewhere that's fairly central. If, in fact, the AMP warrants a HS2 station, then a closer description would be "Waverley".

Maybe then those who wanted the station in Little Sheffield should have kept their snouts out of the trough and accepted that the Meadowhall station idea was the best.

[lv426]

I don't disagree. But then, if it were me in charge, the (ever-increasing) money allocated for HS2 would, instead, be diverted to achieve other benefits, including (but not necessarily limited to) general capacity, resilience and speed improvements (which may include some shorter segments of new formation) to the existing network; re-openings of the higher-profile 1960s closures (such as Beverley <> York) and so on.

One "school of thought" suggests that HS2 funding could fund, instead, all of these, with money to spare:

A1 - DUAL CARRIAGEWAY FROM DURHAM TO EDINBURGH
REOPEN THE SKIPTON-COLNE RAILWAY LINE
REOPEN THE BEVERLEY TO YORK RAILWAY
ASHINGTON, BLYTH & TYNE RAILWAY
BRITAIN’S S-BAHN NETWORK: LEEDS
REOPEN THE KESWICK TO PENRITH RAILWAY
UPGRADE THE SETTLE & CARLISLE RAILWAY
REOPEN BLACKBURN TO HELLIFIELD
HIGH SPEED UK-NORTH
THE WHITACRE LINK
REOPEN STOURBRIDGE TO LICHFIELD
UPGRADE THE RUGBY TO BIRMINGHAM RAILWAY LINE
UPGRADE THE A5 TO EXPRESSWAY STANDARD
REOPEN THE SUTTON PARK LINE TO PASSENGERS
CHILTERN MAIN LINE ELECTRIFICATION
MIDLAND MAIN LINE ELECTRIFICATION
IMPROVE THE FELIXSTOWE TO NUNEATON FREIGHT ROUTE
REOPEN THE MARCH TO WISBECH LINE TO PASSENGERS
A NEW STATION ON THE BURY ST EDMUNDS TO ELY LINE
EXTEND CROSSRAIL TO STANSTED AIRPORT & CAMBRIDGE
LOWER THAMES CROSSING
BRIGHTON MAINLINE 2: SUSSEX PHASE
IMPROVE CONNECTIVITY TO BRISTOL TEMPLE MEADS
REBUILD CULLOMPTON STATION
EXETER TO PLYMOUTH VIA OKEHAMPTON
REOPEN THE BODMIN TO WADEBRIDGE RAILWAY LINE
CROSS CORNWALL RAIL LINK
BUILD CYCLE PATHS NEXT TO MOTORWAYS & A-ROADS

and I, for one, would consider those things to represent better value.