donc
Inspector
Posts: 591 
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Post by donc on Mar 5, 2024 16:20:46 GMT
Oliver Coppard says bus franchising is the best way forward for the county's bus network, it will cost £25m to tranisition the network. First has said it is confident it can deliver the change and Stagecoach have said it was committed to working with SYMCA, Coppard is looking at implementing it by the end of the year. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-68473743 |
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Post by teapot42 on Mar 5, 2024 16:29:44 GMT
This raises a question I had a few weeks back. How does franchising work out of area? Do all services that enter a franchised area need to be approved, or can you still register and run such services?
My main thought here is how closely linked South Yorkshire and Derbyshire are, and the potential this could have to cause problems for small operators such as Hulleys, as well as larger ones such as Stagecoach who run a lot of cross-border services.
Also, while it wouldn't have solved all these problems, it makes it even more annoying that the proposal for Chesterfield to join the mayoral region was nixed by DCC. There are far more journeys made between Chesterfield and Sheffield than to any town within Derbyshire, so it makes a lot of sense to be involved in a body which controls such things.
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Post by crossscythe on Mar 6, 2024 15:42:00 GMT
Oliver Coppard says bus franchising is the best way forward for the county's bus network, it will cost £25m to tranisition the network. First has said it is confident it can deliver the change and Stagecoach have said it was committed to working with SYMCA, Coppard is looking at implementing it by the end of the year. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-68473743What does Oliver Coppard know about running buses? Stupid idea. |
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Post by crossscythe on Mar 6, 2024 16:36:06 GMT
Most of the problems with the buses are caused by SYMCA/SCC themselves.
The buses themselves are very good, clean, comfortable and powerful on the hills. The customer service from the drivers is satisfactory and much improved on how it was 10-15 years ago.
The only things that need improving are Leopold Street needs buses back and able to use the proper shelters on there, instead of the make shift ones on Arundel Gate. This is the SYMCA/SCC's fault for meddling. The bus stops need to all have timetables displayed on them, as some are missing. Again, SYMCA's fault. Sunday and evening freqiencies need improving and a circular like the withdrawn number one would be beneficial but other than that, there's not much wrong with the buses. There would be a lot more wrong if SYMCA ran them.
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donc
Inspector
Posts: 591
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Post by donc on Mar 6, 2024 18:07:43 GMT
Oliver Coppard says bus franchising is the best way forward for the county's bus network, it will cost £25m to tranisition the network. First has said it is confident it can deliver the change and Stagecoach have said it was committed to working with SYMCA, Coppard is looking at implementing it by the end of the year. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-68473743What does Oliver Coppard know about running buses? Stupid idea. Maybe the same knowledge as Andy Burnham or whoever ran SYPTE in the 70s and 80s. |
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Post by crossscythe on Mar 6, 2024 18:13:53 GMT
What does Oliver Coppard know about running buses? Stupid idea. Maybe the same knowledge as Andy Burnham or whoever ran SYPTE in the 70s and 80s. B**ger all then. |
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Post by rothlad on Mar 8, 2024 11:46:37 GMT
Most of the problems with the buses are caused by SYMCA/SCC themselves. The buses themselves are very good, clean, comfortable and powerful on the hills. The customer service from the drivers is satisfactory and much improved on how it was 10-15 years ago. The only things that need improving are Leopold Street needs buses back and able to use the proper shelters on there, instead of the make shift ones on Arundel Gate. This is the SYMCA/SCC's fault for meddling. The bus stops need to all have timetables displayed on them, as some are missing. Again, SYMCA's fault. Sunday and evening freqiencies need improving and a circular like the withdrawn number one would be beneficial but other than that, there's not much wrong with the buses. There would be a lot more wrong if SYMCA ran them. Leopold Street/Pinstone Street was closed permanently by SCC. Not ever going to re-open, same for Surrey Street. SYMCA are not going to pay money themselves to remove the redundant shelters, disconnect them from the local power grid and remove them. To connect to the national grid per shelter is £22k alone. I believe its waiting on funding from SCC and works/plans have just been drawn up for new bus shelters on Arundel Gate, along with a new outbound bus gate on Furnival Gate. As part of this works, the bus lane will be flipped on Arundel Gate, with 2 new shelters provided opposite the library and 1 new shelter provided at AG12. This is also related to the new shipping container development between the o2 Academy and Odeon. The current AG123 stop will be removed, with I believe the 75/76, 76A, 86, 97/98 moving to AG9 and the 20, 24/25 moving to the improved AG12 alongside existing 43/43A, 44, X17 services. This will keep Chesterfield Road services on one stop and also allow the Woodseats services to be better spaced with bus stops next to each other. There will also be the new SC1/SC2 city centre shuttle routes that are fully funded by Sheffield City Council, operating around most parts of the city centre to link up interchange points etc. |
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Post by crossscythe on Mar 8, 2024 14:37:07 GMT
Most of the problems with the buses are caused by SYMCA/SCC themselves. The buses themselves are very good, clean, comfortable and powerful on the hills. The customer service from the drivers is satisfactory and much improved on how it was 10-15 years ago. The only things that need improving are Leopold Street needs buses back and able to use the proper shelters on there, instead of the make shift ones on Arundel Gate. This is the SYMCA/SCC's fault for meddling. The bus stops need to all have timetables displayed on them, as some are missing. Again, SYMCA's fault. Sunday and evening freqiencies need improving and a circular like the withdrawn number one would be beneficial but other than that, there's not much wrong with the buses. There would be a lot more wrong if SYMCA ran them. Leopold Street/Pinstone Street was closed permanently by SCC. Not ever going to re-open, same for Surrey Street. SYMCA are not going to pay money themselves to remove the redundant shelters, disconnect them from the local power grid and remove them. To connect to the national grid per shelter is £22k alone. I believe its waiting on funding from SCC and works/plans have just been drawn up for new bus shelters on Arundel Gate, along with a new outbound bus gate on Furnival Gate. As part of this works, the bus lane will be flipped on Arundel Gate, with 2 new shelters provided opposite the library and 1 new shelter provided at AG12. This is also related to the new shipping container development between the o2 Academy and Odeon. The current AG123 stop will be removed, with I believe the 75/76, 76A, 86, 97/98 moving to AG9 and the 20, 24/25 moving to the improved AG12 alongside existing 43/43A, 44, X17 services. This will keep Chesterfield Road services on one stop and also allow the Woodseats services to be better spaced with bus stops next to each other. There will also be the new SC1/SC2 city centre shuttle routes that are fully funded by Sheffield City Council, operating around most parts of the city centre to link up interchange points etc. Is it correct to say you support these arrangements then? |
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Post by dougie on Mar 15, 2024 9:50:46 GMT
I think the political pressure will grow to the point where anyone who wins the next Mayoral election in South Yorkshire (or other municipal equivalents) will be expected to make a pledge like that, because the alternative will be to take the blame for decisions that private companies make to increase fares/ cut marginal services etc
I’m glad that buses are sufficiently high up the agenda that they aren’t being ignored any more
But the question we’ve not yet seen an answer to is whether it actually works
Trying to be non political, I don’t feel that a government-run Northern Trains has been any improvement on the previous Arriva operation. Neither were brilliant, it’s just that the blame when something goes wrong now lies with “penny pinching bureaucrats” rather than “greedy capitalist bosses”
Some people will instinctively hate any “statist intervention”, some people will naturally hate “private companies making a profit”, we all have our ideology and for some people the “ownership” Is more important than the “everyday passenger experience”
However these days I’m more fussed about humdrum stuff like reliability/ number of seats onboard/ punctuality/ affordability/ on board environment. The composition of the boardroom is less important to me than whether I can rely on it to get me to work on time five days a week/ whether I can find a seat or am forced to stand next to an overflowing bin/ blocked train toilet
Maybe in a year or so it’ll be fair to assess the Greater Manchester scheme. Better? Worse? Or “Little different but everything is painted yellow”? Will Burnham invest in new vehicles and improve frequencies? Or will he save money from trimming back in the name of “improving coordination” without investing those resources on other routes? Will it mean focusing on routes inside GM at the expense of places like Chorley/ St Helens/ Wilmslow/ Glossop? Will direct buses into Manchester be cut to just going as far as a Metrolink stop now one body will control both ?Will buses spend their whole lives in/around Manchester to get full use from them or will we continue to see midlife vehicles cascaded out (e.g. we have some Stagecoach E400s that moved to South Yorkshire)?
As an equivalent, would an SY run more buses from Sheffield out to Lowedges/ Batemoor but fewer over the border to Dronfield/ Chesterfield? Would any resources saved from thinning out the frequency on a congested corridor like London Road in Sheffield be used to improve relatively marginal operations in somewhere like Penistone or will the Mayor/ Councils pocket the money to use to prop up underfunded things like libraries/ meals on wheels? Would it mean cutting services from south eastern Sheffield to just Manor Top and forced passengers to change there onto a tram?
If they are trying to appease the wider electorate (rather than First/ Stagecoach just focusing on their current passenger base) then will they focus on crowd pleasing stunts like retro liveries/ bringing back an old number like the 60 to the Hallamshire? Or they be more keen to do promote public transport, like photoshoots in front of new buses to show off how good things are?
My enthusiasm for this really depends on whether it works elsewhere. I know Manchester is a bit different (they certainly always seem to get a healthier share of public money than SY), so direct comparisons will always be skewed, but I’m trying to put my own politics to one side and judge it fairly
As a comparison, maybe you had views on a locally elected Police Commissioner being able to improve things or not but I don’t honestly think it’s made much difference to crime/ public safety one way or t’other
Or, rather, I don’t particularly hold much love for aspects of First/ Stagecoach but I don’t think SYPTE have been brilliant over the past twenty years either
But basing an argument on how SYT could run (in an era when people went to the pub a few nights a week/ huge numbers did the same shift pattern in factories and before retail parks/ Meadowhall) seems as unfair as judging private companies by what Stagecoach did in Darlington thirty years ago
Ignore the politics, focus on the future.
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