Lincoln/Nottingham - Leeds Overcrowding (Read 426 times)

[crossscythe]

Lincoln /Nottingham to Leeds trains (Northern Express) are always ridiculously overcrowded whenever I catch them at all times of the day. The class 195 Civity trains seem to have less seats than the 158s they have replaced (and also much less pleasant to travel on). It's rare I get a seat on these trains. Serving 3 cities (2 of the cities large ones) and large towns/popular destinations like Meadowhall, 2 carriages isn't enough. There are 3 car 195s running off people between Manchester and New Mills Central but only 2 cars on the busy Northern Connect route...it doesn't seem logical to me. They could atleast swap the 195s for 158s on that route as they have more capacity and perhaps put the 195s on the Leeds Via Moorthorpe runs instead. Sometimes it is so bad the guard can't even get back to his cab after doing the doors which could cause problems if he needs to access the GSMR.

[crossscythe]

Apr 7, 2024 13:53:34 GMT crossscythe said:

Lincoln /Nottingham to Leeds trains (Northern Express) are always ridiculously overcrowded whenever I catch them at all times of the day. The class 195 Civity trains seem to have less seats than the 158s they have replaced (and also much less pleasant to travel on). It's rare I get a seat on these trains. Serving 3 cities (2 of the cities large ones) and large towns/popular destinations like Meadowhall, 2 carriages isn't enough. There are 3 car 195s running off peak between Manchester and New Mills Central but only 2 cars on the busy Northern Connect route...it doesn't seem logical to me. They could atleast swap the 195s for 158s on that route as they have more capacity and perhaps put the 195s on the Leeds Via Moorthorpe runs instead. Sometimes it is so bad the guard can't even get back to his cab after doing the doors which could cause problems if he needs to access the GSMR.

[tomtom11928]

Part of the problem is lack of suitable platforming at Leeds. Really the only available platform for it to use without having to cross the whole of Leeds West Jn. is 17, which it has to share with the Knottingley and Sheffield stoppers that go via Castleford.

Until such a time that 17 can be extended, or a new Bay platform or two can be built, it'll be stuck with two carriages. Notably it does sometimes run as four carriages at the very extremes of the day, and on some services on Sunday too.

[dougie]

Apr 8, 2024 5:02:16 GMT tomtom11928 said:

Part of the problem is lack of suitable platforming at Leeds. Really the only available platform for it to use without having to cross the whole of Leeds West Jn. is 17, which it has to share with the Knottingley and Sheffield stoppers that go via Castleford.

Until such a time that 17 can be extended, or a new Bay platform or two can be built, it'll be stuck with two carriages. Notably it does sometimes run as four carriages at the very extremes of the day, and on some services on Sunday too.

Ideally someone important might decide that the one train an hour from Nottingham to Leeds might be at least as deserving of a through platform at Leeds as one of the Manchester-Leeds trains

However the obsession with Manchester-Leeds services (not just today but 802s/ loco hauled Mk5s/ further new stock planned/ four tracking/ electrification pledges/ potential route for HS2, then HS3 then TRU etc) compared to Manchester-Sheffield (taking about a decade to put in a couple of little loops to finally permit some freight trains to be overtaken, reinstating short section of track for the second platform at Dore that BR removed, TP preferring to ditch their Mk5s than use them on the Cleethorpes route) or Sheffield-Leeds (no
plans to replace the replace the short Voyagers where the only genuinely “fast” train between the large cities means sharing a four coach train with passengers from Plymouth/Bristol/ Birmingham/ York/ Newcastle/ Edinburgh, especially given that the Birmingham- Newcastle via Doncaster service still hasn’t been properly reinstated since Covid four years ago, HS2 in Yorkshire scrapped - albeit there was no HS2 planned all the way from central Sheffield to central Leeds)

But I think that Westminster sees Manchester-Leeds as the only real corridor worth investing in in northern England, so it’ll continue to focus on it even if that means no plans to upgrade the two coach diesel service from Nottingham to Leeds that takes around two hours to do the sixty miles as the crow flies between the cities… yours, Paranoid of South Yorkshire!

[crossscythe]

Seems a great shame to have the whole route limited to 2 carriages because of one measley platform. If the tracks don't physically have points leading to any other platform than 17 from the Woodlesford Line, then perhaps the train could use the points triangle at Holbeck junction to arrive in to Leeds on the Outwood Line or have the Knottingley stoppers do that and free up platform space on 17 to allow for a three car Express. They could also reverse the ex Lincoln/Nottingham services at Wakefield Kirkgate,up the bank through Westgate and use the Outwood line in to Leeds that way. I understand that XC are going to be dropping calls at Wakefield soon so that should allow more time for a new path on that line to be created. Alternatively, they could apply to the DFT for funding approval to lengthen platform 17. Transpennine have done that for a station on the South Pennine route, which allows them to better use 6 car sets.

[martinc]

Totally agree. If these could be 3 (ideally 4) car trains they would offer a decent alternative (albeit with approx 15 minutes longer journey time) to the generally overcrowded and often ridiculously short (4 coaches) Cross Country offering. As it is the choice is whether to stand on the Croos Country 220/221 Voyager (approx 45 minutes) or stand on the Northern 2 car 195 (approx 60 minutes)