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Post by crossscythe on Aug 14, 2023 13:25:24 GMT
This is grim. Chapeltown maintains a regular service but Batemoor and Fulwood can go swivel. Every two hours is neither use nor ornament for me, if one gets cancelled, that's a four hour wait. I will be using trains and trams as much as possible and avoiding the buses where I can. I suspect many people will do the same. I am surprised there is no mention of the 30 to Plumbley, which runs well in to the night from the Hallamshire, even after the outpatients services finish.
If people are going out of an evening, it makes much more sense to get a taxi these days. Recently cost us £4.50 for three of us to get picked up door to door, arrived in good time, exactly when we requested it, compared to paying £6 for three of us to stand at a cold rainy bus stop for goodness knows how long and still have half a mile to walk from the bus stop at the end.
I am beginning to wonder if they are deliberately running down the tenders and discouraging big boys like First in order to take full control like what is set to happen up in Manchester and what happens ij London. As I said on another thread, nationalising the bus services is not a good thing. It is best all around to keep them private but local authorities love to meddle.
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Post by alemaster on Aug 14, 2023 17:02:14 GMT
This is grim. Chapeltown maintains a regular service but Batemoor and Fulwood can go swivel. Every two hours is neither use nor ornament for me, if one gets cancelled, that's a four hour wait. I will be using trains and trams as much as possible and avoiding the buses where I can. I suspect many people will do the same. I am surprised there is no mention of the 30 to Plumbley, which runs well in to the night from the Hallamshire, even after the outpatients services finish. If people are going out of an evening, it makes much more sense to get a taxi these days. Recently cost us £4.50 for three of us to get picked up door to door, arrived in good time, exactly when we requested it, compared to paying £6 for three of us to stand at a cold rainy bus stop for goodness knows how long and still have half a mile to walk from the bus stop at the end. I am beginning to wonder if they are deliberately running down the tenders and discouraging big boys like First in order to take full control like what is set to happen up in Manchester and what happens ij London. As I said on another thread, nationalising the bus services is not a good thing. It is best all around to keep them private but local authorities love to meddle. It depends where the folk of Batemoor and Fulwood want to go on an evening and Sunday. Batemoor will still have the 44 and 75, Fulwood will still have the 120. |
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Post by crossscythe on Aug 14, 2023 19:05:10 GMT
This is grim. Chapeltown maintains a regular service but Batemoor and Fulwood can go swivel. Every two hours is neither use nor ornament for me, if one gets cancelled, that's a four hour wait. I will be using trains and trams as much as possible and avoiding the buses where I can. I suspect many people will do the same. I am surprised there is no mention of the 30 to Plumbley, which runs well in to the night from the Hallamshire, even after the outpatients services finish. If people are going out of an evening, it makes much more sense to get a taxi these days. Recently cost us £4.50 for three of us to get picked up door to door, arrived in good time, exactly when we requested it, compared to paying £6 for three of us to stand at a cold rainy bus stop for goodness knows how long and still have half a mile to walk from the bus stop at the end. I am beginning to wonder if they are deliberately running down the tenders and discouraging big boys like First in order to take full control like what is set to happen up in Manchester and what happens ij London. As I said on another thread, nationalising the bus services is not a good thing. It is best all around to keep them private but local authorities love to meddle. It depends where the folk of Batemoor and Fulwood want to go on an evening and Sunday. Batemoor will still have the 44 and 75, Fulwood will still have the 120. Chapeltown still has the 1, 1a, 83, 86, 2 and two direct rail services per hour to Sheffield, Meadowhall & Barnsley for most of the evening. Those living on Redmires Road are now left with the 2 hourly 51 or nout at all. |
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Post by simonk82701 on Aug 14, 2023 19:38:18 GMT
I have fond the tender document. but you have to be a registered organisation to view it. Maybe I will have to FOI Symca
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Post by crossscythe on Aug 14, 2023 20:00:55 GMT
I have fond the tender document. but you have to be a registered organisation to view it. Maybe I will have to FOI Symca If they've nout to hide, why so secret? |
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Post by simonk82701 on Aug 14, 2023 20:10:00 GMT
I have fond the tender document. but you have to be a registered organisation to view it. Maybe I will have to FOI Symca If they've nout to hide, why so secret? No idea, guessing the tendering website, (which is national for all contracts) doesn't want to be overwhelmed or have time wasters on it. |
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donc
Inspector
Posts: 591 
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Post by donc on Aug 14, 2023 20:37:36 GMT
It depends where the folk of Batemoor and Fulwood want to go on an evening and Sunday. Batemoor will still have the 44 and 75, Fulwood will still have the 120. Chapeltown still has the 1, 1a, 83, 86, 2 and two direct rail services per hour to Sheffield, Meadowhall & Barnsley for most of the evening. Those living on Redmires Road are now left with the 2 hourly 51 or nout at all. People in Sheffield have trams and many train services, many people in Rotherham, Doncaster and Barnsley don't necessarily have this alternative and you can bet Sheffield being the dominant area and the area where Stagecoach and First still compete they will probably get the best of the worst while they other three areas will just be left high and dry with Rotherham probably the worst with no local train stations and a tram that only goes to Parkgate. |
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Post by crossscythe on Aug 14, 2023 20:46:40 GMT
Chapeltown still has the 1, 1a, 83, 86, 2 and two direct rail services per hour to Sheffield, Meadowhall & Barnsley for most of the evening. Those living on Redmires Road are now left with the 2 hourly 51 or nout at all. People in Sheffield have trams and many train services, many people in Rotherham, Doncaster and Barnsley don't necessarily have this alternative and you can bet Sheffield being the dominant area and the area where Stagecoach and First still compete they will probably get the best of the worst while they other three areas will just be left high and dry with Rotherham probably the worst with no local train stations and a tram that only goes to Parkgate. Certainly Mexborough has it rough, with only one train an hour now and obviously never been served by the X78. The bus service in Whiston is poor too. From what I have seen, Wath seems to be well served, it's swings and round abouts. I don't doubt that Wath and Chapeltown being near to Stagecoach depots has something to do with it. Then again, I can't recall a bus ever running through poor Holbrook in service. |
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Post by The Captain on Aug 14, 2023 22:18:26 GMT
People in Sheffield have trams and many train services, many people in Rotherham, Doncaster and Barnsley don't necessarily have this alternative and you can bet Sheffield being the dominant area and the area where Stagecoach and First still compete they will probably get the best of the worst while they other three areas will just be left high and dry with Rotherham probably the worst with no local train stations and a tram that only goes to Parkgate. Certainly Mexborough has it rough, with only one train an hour now and obviously never been served by the X78. The bus service in Whiston is poor too. From what I have seen, Wath seems to be well served, it's swings and round abouts. I don't doubt that Wath and Chapeltown being near to Stagecoach depots has something to do with it. Then again, I can't recall a bus ever running through poor Holbrook in service. 80 passes Holbrook. |
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donc
Inspector
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Post by donc on Aug 15, 2023 8:52:49 GMT
I noticed today that 37111 has a bad image of Arkwright from Open All Hours on the side with the words "we run nearly all hours". I assume this will be removed if October cuts go ahead.
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Post by rothlad on Aug 17, 2023 9:05:59 GMT
Had it confirmed - reasoning behind some of the changes in Sheffield are due to frequency alterations (such as the 20). This is due to the requirement for major hospitals and employment locations remaining at hourly frequencies. Residential services require a 2hr maximum frequency to spread out the limited budget to cover as much of the network as possible. Have also been told it's highly unlikely that all contracts will be filled as there just simply isn't the budget available to fund these wide ranging cuts.
Still find it hard to believe how a city the size of Sheffield (600k) still can't fund more of a commercial network. Apparently the latest figures show 71% of the SY Bus Market will be tendered after 19:00 Mon-Sat and all day Sundays from October. Quite a staggering and alarming figure!
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Post by rothlad on Aug 17, 2023 9:09:55 GMT
Seems a bit odd that the 20 to Hemsworth is being chopped off its normal daytime cross city route and bolted onto a different one - why not run the 20a to Hemsworth? There is also the question that if the 25A to Hemsworth is replacing the 25 to Bradway does that mean Bradway is now getting its only remaining Sunday service axed (evening service was axed last October). Asked the same question. Apparently it's due to the requirement of hourly services to major hospitals and employment sites and 2hr services to residential areas. The service from looking at the existing timetable just can't be split into a hourly/2hr co-ordinated through service. The split and combination with the 25 actually saves a vehicle/driver. 1 vehicle on 20A and 1 vehicle on 25A, as opposed to 3 vehicles currently (2 vehicles on 20 and 1 vehicle on 25). |
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Post by simonk82701 on Aug 17, 2023 19:38:45 GMT
Had it confirmed - reasoning behind some of the changes in Sheffield are due to frequency alterations (such as the 20). This is due to the requirement for major hospitals and employment locations remaining at hourly frequencies. Residential services require a 2hr maximum frequency to spread out the limited budget to cover as much of the network as possible. Have also been told it's highly unlikely that all contracts will be filled as there just simply isn't the budget available to fund these wide ranging cuts. Still find it hard to believe how a city the size of Sheffield (600k) still can't fund more of a commercial network. Apparently the latest figures show 71% of the SY Bus Market will be tendered after 19:00 Mon-Sat and all day Sundays from October. Quite a staggering and alarming figure! Time to put in another FOI request into SYMCA I think. I want to understand how subsidies are decided. Some services to me seem far to busy in the daytime on a Sunday to warrant any subsidy at all. E.g. the 19A Rotherham, or the X1. How to SYMCA keep track of which services actually require support? After all the operators won't be stupid enough to turn down free money. How many passengers need to be carried per trip for a service to be attempted to be run commercially? Most Sheffield services must surly be able to run on their own steam Sunday daytime. It's a large city for goodness sake. The SY mayor is holding so public meeting soon. I may go to one. If the press is to be believed he has half a billion over five years. Surly if you cannot run a decent service on that something is not quite right or is it me? Watch this space, time to do some digging in think. |
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Post by alemaster on Aug 18, 2023 11:47:17 GMT
Had it confirmed - reasoning behind some of the changes in Sheffield are due to frequency alterations (such as the 20). This is due to the requirement for major hospitals and employment locations remaining at hourly frequencies. Residential services require a 2hr maximum frequency to spread out the limited budget to cover as much of the network as possible. Have also been told it's highly unlikely that all contracts will be filled as there just simply isn't the budget available to fund these wide ranging cuts. Still find it hard to believe how a city the size of Sheffield (600k) still can't fund more of a commercial network. Apparently the latest figures show 71% of the SY Bus Market will be tendered after 19:00 Mon-Sat and all day Sundays from October. Quite a staggering and alarming figure! Time to put in another FOI request into SYMCA I think. I want to understand how subsidies are decided. Some services to me seem far to busy in the daytime on a Sunday to warrant any subsidy at all. E.g. the 19A Rotherham, or the X1. How to SYMCA keep track of which services actually require support? After all the operators won't be stupid enough to turn down free money. How many passengers need to be carried per trip for a service to be attempted to be run commercially? Most Sheffield services must surly be able to run on their own steam Sunday daytime. It's a large city for goodness sake. The SY mayor is holding so public meeting soon. I may go to one. If the press is to be believed he has half a billion over five years. Surly if you cannot run a decent service on that something is not quite right or is it me? Watch this space, time to do some digging in think. Commercial services are business ventures that the operators embark upon at their own financial risk. SYMCA are copied in on all registrations and cancellations and their job is to identify gaps in the network where a service is needed due to being essential to the community for economic and/or social reasons but aren't financially viable to operate commercially. They then have to find money to support those additional bus services and put it out to tender with operators bidding for the contract. Due to finances at SYMCA being tight the contracts are effectively being awarded in two batches this year - July for Monday-Saturday daytime services and October for evening & Sunday services. There are two issues really - demand has changed post Covid meaning a greater proportion of buses are no longer financially viable, but also operators nationally are also struggling with a shortage of drivers and some services have been cut simply due to a lack of resource rather than a lack of customers and for the same reason there are less bidders for the contracts. It is worth noting that the list posted on here might not be the complete list and also the specification from SYMCA is a minimum standard what they think the funding available can support - operators are free to suggest in their bids ways of going above and beyond commercially by using an alternative approach and in some parts of the City it may be the case that Derbyshire CC and SYMCA are looking to fund services that could be tied together with a better service running cross border provided with the combined funds. Hopefully I've got that right and not over simplified.. I'm sure someone will jump in and correct me if necessary. |
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Post by simonk82701 on Aug 19, 2023 9:31:40 GMT
Time to put in another FOI request into SYMCA I think. I want to understand how subsidies are decided. Some services to me seem far to busy in the daytime on a Sunday to warrant any subsidy at all. E.g. the 19A Rotherham, or the X1. How to SYMCA keep track of which services actually require support? After all the operators won't be stupid enough to turn down free money. How many passengers need to be carried per trip for a service to be attempted to be run commercially? Most Sheffield services must surly be able to run on their own steam Sunday daytime. It's a large city for goodness sake. The SY mayor is holding so public meeting soon. I may go to one. If the press is to be believed he has half a billion over five years. Surly if you cannot run a decent service on that something is not quite right or is it me? Watch this space, time to do some digging in think. Commercial services are business ventures that the operators embark upon at their own financial risk. SYMCA are copied in on all registrations and cancellations and their job is to identify gaps in the network where a service is needed due to being essential to the community for economic and/or social reasons but aren't financially viable to operate commercially. They then have to find money to support those additional bus services and put it out to tender with operators bidding for the contract. Due to finances at SYMCA being tight the contracts are effectively being awarded in two batches this year - July for Monday-Saturday daytime services and October for evening & Sunday services. There are two issues really - demand has changed post Covid meaning a greater proportion of buses are no longer financially viable, but also operators nationally are also struggling with a shortage of drivers and some services have been cut simply due to a lack of resource rather than a lack of customers and for the same reason there are less bidders for the contracts. It is worth noting that the list posted on here might not be the complete list and also the specification from SYMCA is a minimum standard what they think the funding available can support - operators are free to suggest in their bids ways of going above and beyond commercially by using an alternative approach and in some parts of the City it may be the case that Derbyshire CC and SYMCA are looking to fund services that could be tied together with a better service running cross border provided with the combined funds. Hopefully I've got that right and not over simplified.. I'm sure someone will jump in and correct me if necessary. Thank you. I understand that, what I am thinking is, how many passengers per return trip justify a commercial service? No operator is going to turn down funding if it is offered, even if they have a full decker. How do they justify how much funding they need, and if passenger numbers increase, during the contract, how is that policed to ensure funding remains needed? I find it very hard to understand how the X1 for example does not cover it's own running costs in the daytime on a Sunday. Yet it is potentially being cut to 2 hourly in the evenings and Sundays to Maltby. I also wonder how an alleged half a billion pounds over five years is not enough to run a decent evening and Sunday network. Maybe I am looking at it in a too simplistic way? |
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