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Post by The Captain on Sept 7, 2023 22:07:56 GMT
im supprised chesterfield didnt keep the 80/80a as it must be a busy ish route for them going to sheffield It takes too long from Killamarsh in both directions on the 80. Usage has picked up on the new section between Crystal Peaks and Sheffield through Beighton and Woodhouse, and Chesterfield to Brimington is still fairly well used, but after Staveley single digit passenger numbers seem to be the norm. 80a is similar, decent numbers use it between Sheffield and Mosborough, but the rest is pretty quiet. Can't imagine the residents of Killamarsh who do use it will be happy that they're losing their only bus to Sheffield when Hulley's take over though. Killamarsh got shafted when First decided they didn't want to commit to running in quite a few rural areas and TBH once the X52 went and the chopping and changing from the 95/21 etc the writing was on the wall. |
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Post by dougie on Sept 8, 2023 9:11:24 GMT
There's certainly been various attempts at links over the years - the X51/X52 via Mosbrough, the X26/ X47/X47/ X56 via the Parkway, the 26/49/95 via Manor Top
I thought that the SL3 would work in Killamarsh - the original Super Tram "link" from Stocksbridge to Middlewood seemed to be doing pretty well (pre Covid), and the SL3 was actually a useful link to a proper destination in its own right (Crystal Peaks), rather than the SL and SL2 that terminated at Middlewood and Malin Bridge - but it didn't last, and I think it'd take a very "brave" operator to try to run much of a Killamarsh - Sheffield service now (given that the frequent trams/ buses from Halfway/ Crystal Peaks mean that you'd struggle to make much of an impact for "city" journeys and the fact that Killamarsh is over the border so a good Sheffield link won't be as big a priority for either Derbyshire or South Yorkshire to fund compared to routes wholly inside their territories)
A simple shuttle to the Halfway tram terminus might have worked, but then there's not so much there (compared to Crystal Peaks, which is a destination in its own right), a bit like the way that the SL2 struggled at Malin Bridge and had to be extended into central Hillsborough
Certainly, pre-Covid, I'd have been surprised that the link was going to be chopped down to just the once-a-day X30, but what spare funding is there for much else? Nowt..
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Post by alemaster on Sept 8, 2023 11:16:15 GMT
Indeed, there has been lots of different attempts to serve Killamarsh over the years by various operators none of which has done very good business, I guess the problem there is whilst there are plenty of chimney pots people want to travel in lots of different directions (Chesterfield, Sheffield, Rotherham).
Currently Killamarsh has the
26/26a Crystal Peaks to Kiveton Park
73/74 Crystal Peaks to Clowne
80 Sheffield to Chesterfield
X30 Sheffield to Harthill (peak time only)
The Sheffield end of the 80 pretty much duplicates the 30, additionally the 7 goes to Crystal Peaks via Woodhouse. Perhaps extend one of those or some trips on the 120 to Killamarsh to replace the Sheffield end of the 80? The other choice I guess is to promote connections via Crystal Peaks, Killamarsh is included in the Sheffield Citywide tickets. More inconvenienced I would imagine are those travelling to Sheffield from areas like Renishaw that will be left with only the 53 along with an 80 that wanders all round Killamarsh before dumping them at Crystal Peaks!
One thing I would add is there are lots of Derbyshire changes coming up so the rumoured changes to the 80 may just be one piece of a bigger picture that needs to be seen.
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Post by dougie on Sept 8, 2023 19:18:53 GMT
I can see the idea behind extending the 7 or 120 but these are long cross city routes already, so I could see why Stagecoach etc were reluctant - at least the X30 is going to run empty to/from the depot so it’s no major hardship to put The short Killamarsh extension
Not just Killamarsh though, there must be quite a few people living in the triangle between Halfway/ Worksop/ Mansfield but it’s hard to serve them well with good direct services that don’t go all round the houses to try to tick lots of boxes… all the time the M1 is a fast route to Meadowhall etc for anyone with a car
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Post by crossscythe on Sept 8, 2023 19:54:01 GMT
There's certainly been various attempts at links over the years - the X51/X52 via Mosbrough, the X26/ X47/X47/ X56 via the Parkway, the 26/49/95 via Manor Top I thought that the SL3 would work in Killamarsh - the original Super Tram "link" from Stocksbridge to Middlewood seemed to be doing pretty well (pre Covid), and the SL3 was actually a useful link to a proper destination in its own right (Crystal Peaks), rather than the SL and SL2 that terminated at Middlewood and Malin Bridge - but it didn't last, and I think it'd take a very "brave" operator to try to run much of a Killamarsh - Sheffield service now (given that the frequent trams/ buses from Halfway/ Crystal Peaks mean that you'd struggle to make much of an impact for "city" journeys and the fact that Killamarsh is over the border so a good Sheffield link won't be as big a priority for either Derbyshire or South Yorkshire to fund compared to routes wholly inside their territories) A simple shuttle to the Halfway tram terminus might have worked, but then there's not so much there (compared to Crystal Peaks, which is a destination in its own right), a bit like the way that the SL2 struggled at Malin Bridge and had to be extended into central Hillsborough Certainly, pre-Covid, I'd have been surprised that the link was going to be chopped down to just the once-a-day X30, but what spare funding is there for much else? Nowt.. A shuttle run by a locally placed operator like TM travel from Killamarsh to the Halfway Park and Ride and then driving in to Morrison's Oxclose car park would be useful, could even venture in to Holbrook for the factory workers. One an hour should be sufficient, could be done with one driver and one Optare Solo to keep costs low. Those that want C Peaks Sheffield City Centre or Meadowhall can change to the tram or 120 at Halfway P&R. |
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Post by crossscythe on Sept 8, 2023 20:49:00 GMT
A shuttle run by a locally placed operator like TM travel from Killamarsh to the Halfway Park and Ride and then driving in to Morrison's Oxclose car park would be useful, could even venture in to Holbrook for the factory workers. One an hour should be sufficient, could be done with one driver and one Optare Solo to keep costs low. Those that want C Peaks Sheffield City Centre or Meadowhall can change to the tram or 120 at Halfway P&R. If TM were to fill the gap it'd make sense to come up with an amalgamation of the 8/8a/26/252. Sheffield - Newfield Green - Gleadless - Birley - Hackenthorpe - Crystal Peaks - Killamarsh - Wales - Kiveton - Thorpe Salvin - Harthill. Birley - Harthill tendered by PTE wiping out the 8/26 tenders, could extend the 21 from Harthill to Killamarsh to plug the gap at Woodall but personally is there a demand to serve Woodall and Thorpe Salvin these days?? I can imagine Thorpe Salvin being popular with day trippers and Woodall being good for anyone stranded at the services. |
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Post by The Captain on Sept 8, 2023 21:24:03 GMT
If TM were to fill the gap it'd make sense to come up with an amalgamation of the 8/8a/26/252. Sheffield - Newfield Green - Gleadless - Birley - Hackenthorpe - Crystal Peaks - Killamarsh - Wales - Kiveton - Thorpe Salvin - Harthill. Birley - Harthill tendered by PTE wiping out the 8/26 tenders, could extend the 21 from Harthill to Killamarsh to plug the gap at Woodall but personally is there a demand to serve Woodall and Thorpe Salvin these days?? I can imagine Thorpe Salvin being popular with day trippers and Woodall being good for anyone stranded at the services. Harthill to Thorpe Salvin/Kiveton Park some of the best fresh air mileage I've ever driven. |
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Post by alemaster on Sept 9, 2023 8:47:24 GMT
I can imagine Thorpe Salvin being popular with day trippers and Woodall being good for anyone stranded at the services. Harthill to Thorpe Salvin/Kiveton Park some of the best fresh air mileage I've ever driven. Its another example of the glass wall created by local authorities at the county boundary - what is now the 26 through Harthill to Thorpe Salvin used to go to Shireoaks and Worksop which is where some of the demand for the area is, it still of course caters for the Crystal Peaks demand but only goes the direct route once every 2 hours, so whilst it is ticking a number of boxes its main business is Crystal Peaks-Kiveton traffic really. Much of the bus market in Harthill has been strangled in recent years when First operated the Sheffield service as it was so incredibly unreliable and since then locals complain the route to Rotherham is far too slow to be attractive. |
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Post by alemaster on Sept 9, 2023 8:51:32 GMT
A shuttle run by a locally placed operator like TM travel from Killamarsh to the Halfway Park and Ride and then driving in to Morrison's Oxclose car park would be useful, could even venture in to Holbrook for the factory workers. One an hour should be sufficient, could be done with one driver and one Optare Solo to keep costs low. Those that want C Peaks Sheffield City Centre or Meadowhall can change to the tram or 120 at Halfway P&R. If TM were to fill the gap it'd make sense to come up with an amalgamation of the 8/8a/26/252. Sheffield - Newfield Green - Gleadless - Birley - Hackenthorpe - Crystal Peaks - Killamarsh - Wales - Kiveton - Thorpe Salvin - Harthill. Birley - Harthill tendered by PTE wiping out the 8/26 tenders, could extend the 21 from Harthill to Killamarsh to plug the gap at Woodall but personally is there a demand to serve Woodall and Thorpe Salvin these days?? There are already buses between Killamarsh and Crystal Peaks - 26/26a and 74, although the 26/26a only goes along the bottom road and doesn't serve the estates and by the sounds of it the 80 will still do so too - just not continue beyond Crystal Peaks to Sheffield. The question I guess is how to cater for Killamarsh to Sheffield passengers with a direct service. Actually the idea of a 26/26a Sheffield to Kiveton Park via Mosborough, Halfway tram terminus, Killmarsh and either Harthill or Wales may go down well! Also of course we mustn't forget Renishaw to Sheffield - perhaps add some short workings to the 53 to provide an hourly service? I wonder if this is another case of local authorities creating a glass wall at the county boundary? Derbyshire County Council not interested in journeys that cross into South Yorkshire and the South Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority not interested in journeys that cross into Derbyshire? |
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Post by alemaster on Sept 10, 2023 11:54:13 GMT
From Hulleys Facebook page:
Changes to services effective 29 October 2023:
48/49 - these will be taken over by another Operator
55 - between Chesterfield Town Centre and the Royal Hospital buses will operate via Spital and Hady, instead of Chesterfield Rail Station
63 - the 1445 Chesterfield to Matlock will depart 1430 and run 15 minutes earlier throughout
80/80a/X80 - partially replacing Stagecoach Yorkshire services 80/80a and our service 84, these will run between Holymoorside and Crystal Peaks via Chesterfield Town Centre, direct to the Royal Hospital then via Brimington Common, Staveley, Nether Handley, Eckington, Renishaw, Spinkhill, High Moor and Killamarsh then direct via Moss Way to Crystal Peaks, giving much faster journeys between Killamarsh and Chesterfield/Crystal Peaks, and reinstating links between Eckington and Staveley/Killamarsh, and Holymoorside to the Royal Hospital. Evening and Sunday journeys will run as 80a via Woodthorpe and Mastin Moor instead of Eckington and will extend to and from Bakewell (the evening service between Bakewell and Matlock now provided by trentbarton Service 6.1); X80 will provide an additional peak hour journey between Killamarsh, Eckington and Chesterfield running non-stop from Staveley via Tapton; timings between Chesterfield and Holymoorside are only slightly changed - combined with Service 170 buses will run approximately every 30 minutes down the full length of Chatsworth Road, also giving a better connection for Holymoorside residents wanting to travel to Bakewell
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Post by ady1977 on Sept 10, 2023 13:10:29 GMT
i take it the new hullys 80 will be going via hall lane to nether handley will it be going into barrow hill on the way to eckington as it dose not say
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Post by 31400 on Sept 10, 2023 16:30:55 GMT
From Hulleys Facebook page: 80/80a/X80 - partially replacing Stagecoach Yorkshire services 80/80a and our service 84, these will run between Holymoorside and Crystal Peaks via Chesterfield Town Centre, direct to the Royal Hospital then via Brimington Common, Staveley, Nether Handley, Eckington, Renishaw, Spinkhill, High Moor and Killamarsh then direct via Moss Way to Crystal Peaks, giving much faster journeys between Killamarsh and Chesterfield/Crystal Peaks, and reinstating links between Eckington and Staveley/Killamarsh, and Holymoorside to the Royal Hospital. Evening and Sunday journeys will run as 80a via Woodthorpe and Mastin Moor instead of Eckington and will extend to and from Bakewell (the evening service between Bakewell and Matlock now provided by trentbarton Service 6.1); X80 will provide an additional peak hour journey between Killamarsh, Eckington and Chesterfield running non-stop from Staveley via Tapton; timings between Chesterfield and Holymoorside are only slightly changed - combined with Service 170 buses will run approximately every 30 minutes down the full length of Chatsworth Road, also giving a better connection for Holymoorside residents wanting to travel to Bakewell No mention of the evening or Sunday service via Mosborough. Do these remain unchanged? |
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Post by alemaster on Sept 11, 2023 12:50:51 GMT
From Hulleys Facebook page: 80/80a/X80 - partially replacing Stagecoach Yorkshire services 80/80a and our service 84, these will run between Holymoorside and Crystal Peaks via Chesterfield Town Centre, direct to the Royal Hospital then via Brimington Common, Staveley, Nether Handley, Eckington, Renishaw, Spinkhill, High Moor and Killamarsh then direct via Moss Way to Crystal Peaks, giving much faster journeys between Killamarsh and Chesterfield/Crystal Peaks, and reinstating links between Eckington and Staveley/Killamarsh, and Holymoorside to the Royal Hospital. Evening and Sunday journeys will run as 80a via Woodthorpe and Mastin Moor instead of Eckington and will extend to and from Bakewell (the evening service between Bakewell and Matlock now provided by trentbarton Service 6.1); X80 will provide an additional peak hour journey between Killamarsh, Eckington and Chesterfield running non-stop from Staveley via Tapton; timings between Chesterfield and Holymoorside are only slightly changed - combined with Service 170 buses will run approximately every 30 minutes down the full length of Chatsworth Road, also giving a better connection for Holymoorside residents wanting to travel to Bakewell No mention of the evening or Sunday service via Mosborough. Do these remain unchanged? The 80a is mentioned: "Evening and Sunday journeys will run as 80a via Woodthorpe and Mastin Moor instead of Eckington and will extend to and from Bakewell" Presumably the 80a will be diverted to Crystal Peaks to terminate there like the 80 and therefore no longer run via Mosborough to Sheffield. I don't think SYMCA make any financial contribution to the 80/80a. |
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Post by dougie on Sept 11, 2023 13:45:31 GMT
I don't know what Hulley's plan to use on the "new" services but maybe another factor for Derbyshire is that the Clean Air Zone in Sheffield may have dissuaded some operators from bidding if the route had continued to run into the city centre - by terminating it at Crystal Peaks they might attract more bidders who wouldn't be put off by the prospect of paying "fines" for running non-compliant vehicles?
At least Stagecoach tried to make a go of the 72/80, the Woodhouse diversion etc, but it's going to be hard to attract people to wait for an hourly service when there are frequent trams/ buses for certain bits of the route (and, whilst I'd be confident to wait for an hour bus from my house to a Tram interchange, I'd be a lot more apprehensive about getting the tram home from the city centre to that interchange that my hourly bus was departing from, I can't blame people for being uncertain and worrying that they might have a fifty-something minute wait if the tran is delayed - no guarantee that the bus would wait - whilst it's one thing to kill time at a busy train station, there's not a lot to pass the time with at a tram interchange like Halfway, especially if this was my daily commute)
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Post by ady1977 on Sept 11, 2023 14:33:52 GMT
why didnt they transfer it to holbrook as they have the hybrids also the new e400s that are coming aswell am sure some of the chesterfield routes could be distrebuted else where
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