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Post by teapot42 on Sept 14, 2023 14:05:22 GMT
One X17 has always extended to (or beyond) Walton as the Walton Flyer. Before that it was the Holymoorside Flyer. A peak time extension to the Chesterfield terminators. It's pushing it a lot to call this the Walton Flyer. It barely hits the far corner of Walton. My wife used to use it when it started at Holymoorside, it sounds like it used to be moderately popular but the sections where it picked up passengers are the sections it now no longer covers. It was cut due to supposed poor loadings, but the morning journeys often didn't run full route as the bus often left the depot late so they skipped bits to get it back on time from Chesterfield onwards. Seems to be a common Stagecoach problem, don't operate the full service then justify cuts due to poor loadings which arise because they don't run it properly.
Personally, I would think a better use of the second bus beyond Chesterfield to Matlock would be to run it via the 90 route (outbound) to Walton Back Lane but turn right there and re-join the normal route. Gives a nice chunk of Chesterfield a direct link to Sheffield and, with the upcoming changes, goes some way to reducing the impact of the cuts. Journey time won't be more than a couple of minutes different so they could absorb it with stand time at Chesterfield.
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Post by alemaster on Sept 14, 2023 17:20:57 GMT
Will this 25A be running up Derbyshire Lane and round the north eastern end of Graves' Park? Will it terminate in the city centre? I can't see Woodhouse needing ANOTHER bus service running there. The 25a replaces the Woodhouse end of the 25 and the Hemsworth end of the 20, evenings only |
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Post by alemaster on Sept 14, 2023 17:22:46 GMT
43a to Lowedges is just a short working for a combined 15 minutes frequency between Meadow head and the city centre. As far as I'm aware it's just Monday-Saturday during the day. Personally I'd have thought a short 44 turning at Batemoor would make more sense but there must be a reason they've chosen Lowedges. Chimney pots, compete with the 24. What would actually be useful was if it went further, to Dronfield via Bradway restoring the lost link. It'd also provide an alternative to the unreliable 25! |
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Post by crossscythe on Sept 14, 2023 18:37:26 GMT
I think there is scope for extending the 218 from the city centre to Northern General Hospital clock tower and then Meadowhall. With so many services being done at NGH now, instead of RHH and Meadowhall essentially becoming the new city centre, with all of the good shops in town closing down a direct link to north east Sheffield would be useful and with Bakewell being a large town, could attract shoppers to Meadowhall. It has worked well with the X17 Matlock bus. Extend the running times to later in the evening and you can get the nightlife goers both ways too.
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Post by swfcforever on Sept 14, 2023 20:54:54 GMT
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Post by dougie on Sept 15, 2023 7:15:52 GMT
43a to Lowedges is just a short working for a combined 15 minutes frequency between Meadow head and the city centre. As far as I'm aware it's just Monday-Saturday during the day. Personally I'd have thought a short 44 turning at Batemoor would make more sense but there must be a reason they've chosen Lowedges. What would make sense is for the PTE to chuck a bit of coin and and have it run Chancet Wood to Meadowhead and then commercially to Sheffield, getting rid of the 76A tender for probably a fraction of the cost Or just run the fourth service per hour from Chancet Wood - Woodseats - A61 - City (following the 20/43/44 route via London Road) The 76A is such a frustrating service as it means running a bus a long way per hour along a busy commercial corridor just so it can serve a short section that doesn't have another service (compared to, say, the Bradfield services which would leave some people a long way from their nearest commercial bus services if they were ever scrapped) - so it seems strange for Stagecoach to be giving up the money for the tendered service at the same time as running an extra bus per hour on the Woodseats - City corridor (albeit that the 76A goes via Woodseats Road/ Abbeydale Road rather than Heeley) - but if they want to maintain a fifteen minute service to Meadowhead then I agree with other comments that a half hourly Batemoor/ Jordanthorpe would be more logical than running into Lowedges (nobody is going to wait for an hourly 44A when there's the 24/25/76, surely?) That's our disjointed system though - the PTE set up a contract to pay TM Travel for a few years to run the Chancet Wood service then shortly afterwards Stagecoach find the resources to increase their Woodseats service but running it into Lowedges instead - nobody is in control However, it's good that Stagecoach are increasing the service on at least one corridor - it's only a little thing but a fifteen minute service on the 43/44/44A will mean that the services coordinate better with the 20/24/25/75/76 in Heeley/ Woodseats (than a twenty minute service would have) |
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Post by alemaster on Sept 15, 2023 8:35:57 GMT
The BSIP money was awarded to implement the Bus Service Improvement plan documented in their bid for the funding and can only be spent on that. It includes infrastructure improvement, expansion of the Derbyshire Wayfarer multi-operator ticketing scheme, adding new evening and Sunday services and new connections. So yes, ringfenced. |
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Post by alemaster on Sept 15, 2023 8:52:37 GMT
What would make sense is for the PTE to chuck a bit of coin and and have it run Chancet Wood to Meadowhead and then commercially to Sheffield, getting rid of the 76A tender for probably a fraction of the cost Or just run the fourth service per hour from Chancet Wood - Woodseats - A61 - City (following the 20/43/44 route via London Road) The 76A is such a frustrating service as it means running a bus a long way per hour along a busy commercial corridor just so it can serve a short section that doesn't have another service (compared to, say, the Bradfield services which would leave some people a long way from their nearest commercial bus services if they were ever scrapped) - so it seems strange for Stagecoach to be giving up the money for the tendered service at the same time as running an extra bus per hour on the Woodseats - City corridor (albeit that the 76A goes via Woodseats Road/ Abbeydale Road rather than Heeley) - but if they want to maintain a fifteen minute service to Meadowhead then I agree with other comments that a half hourly Batemoor/ Jordanthorpe would be more logical than running into Lowedges (nobody is going to wait for an hourly 44A when there's the 24/25/76, surely?) That's our disjointed system though - the PTE set up a contract to pay TM Travel for a few years to run the Chancet Wood service then shortly afterwards Stagecoach find the resources to increase their Woodseats service but running it into Lowedges instead - nobody is in control However, it's good that Stagecoach are increasing the service on at least one corridor - it's only a little thing but a fifteen minute service on the 43/44/44A will mean that the services coordinate better with the 20/24/25/75/76 in Heeley/ Woodseats (than a twenty minute service would have) Chancet Wood always seems to have been somewhere the PTE/SYMCA doesn't know what to do with. "Back in the day" it used to be a 36 (then 502) that did Jordanthorpe, Chancet Wood, Hutcliffe Wood, Archer Road and Abbeydale Road into town. When the bus partnership began a variant of the current 86 to Lowedges ran that went to Chancet Wood instead of Lowedges. Inbetween I recall an 18a I think it was? The thing with Chancet Wood it is a housing estate that you can't pass through and the custom there tends to mostly be pensioners going to Woodseats for the doctors, library, shops etc - most others without a car walk through to Meadowhead for a bus. First probably got it roughly right when they ran one 76 an hour as a 76a diverted to Chancet Wood but the timetable now is all wrong - Chancet Wood gets a very limited service and the 76a runs right behind a 76 so not taking much money on the City-Abbeydale-Woodseats section. Actually all the Woodseats and Abbeydale buses are badly co-ordinated, just look at First's evening service from the City Centre where the 97/98, 75/76 and 24 all leave at the same time then there's no bus for half an hour! If all the buses were evenly spaced the frequency on Abbeydale Road and Woodseats could be doubled to every 15 minutes, much more attractive! Example Friday evening from Moorfoot on current timetable around 9pm: 21:02 43 Chesterfield via Heeley, Woodseats and Meadowhead 21:05 76 Lowedges via Abbeydale, Woodseats and Greenhill 21:12 86 Lowedges via Abbeydale, Hutcliffe Wood and Greenhill 21:24 24 Lowedges via Heeley, Woodseats and Meadowhead 21:33 98 Totley Brook via Abbeydale and Dore station 21:38 75 Jordanthorpe via Abbeydale, Woodseats and Meadowhead 22:00 97 Totley via Abbeydale and Dore station 22:02 43 Chesterfield via Heeley, Woodseats and Meadowhead 22:04 76 Lowedges via Abbeydale, Woodseats and Greenhill With the 43/43a/44, this sees an improvement to the daytime service on the 43 in that the buses will be an even half hourly frequency. At the moment there are 3 buses per hour on the 43/44 giving a bus every 20 minutes on the Sheffield-Woodseats-Meadowhead-Dronfield corridor, to achieve that the 43 have a weird 20-40 minute frequency. Now with the added 43a there will be a bus every 15 minutes (4 buses an hour) out of Sheffield as far as Chesterfield Road South in the daytime. There are also evening/Sunday improvements to the 44 which is extended beyond Dronfield to Chesterfield. Also of course shouldn't overlook the improvements to the evening service out of Sheffield provided by the X17 which will run from Sheffield to Chesterfield limited stop via Heeley, Woodseats and Meadowhead hourly until 23:30 - currently the last bus from Sheffield Centre to Meadowhead on a Saturday night is a 75 at 23:08 for example. As for the 43a going to Lowedges - its both operationally convenient and has lots of potential custom I guess, its going via the 24 route which is a part of Lowedges Stagecoach doesn't currently cover and the 24 isn't as frequent as it used to be. I would like the new 43a to be extended beyond Lowedges to Dronfield via Bradway though! Bradway and Dronfield are neighbours yet there is no bus between the two! |
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Post by teapot42 on Sept 15, 2023 11:30:38 GMT
The BSIP money was awarded to implement the Bus Service Improvement plan documented in their bid for the funding and can only be spent on that. It includes infrastructure improvement, expansion of the Derbyshire Wayfarer multi-operator ticketing scheme, adding new evening and Sunday services and new connections. So yes, ringfenced. I believe BSIP was expanded to allow the funds to be used to subsidise existing services? If so, hopefully that means BSIP money can be used if there is no money in the general pot to cover existing services. It would be rather counter-productive if they could fund new evening/Sunday services but not keep existing daytime services.
As an aside, why are early morning services never considered? For example, the morning Holymoorside X17s were withdrawn due to loadings, but DCC pay for the evening 2B which carries far fewer passengers than they did, and there is no alternative provision through other services.
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Post by teapot42 on Sept 15, 2023 13:05:46 GMT
With the 43/43a/44, this sees an improvement to the daytime service on the 43 in that the buses will be an even half hourly frequency. At the moment there are 3 buses per hour on the 43/44 giving a bus every 20 minutes on the Sheffield-Woodseats-Meadowhead-Dronfield corridor, to achieve that the 43 have a weird 20-40 minute frequency. Now with the added 43a there will be a bus every 15 minutes (4 buses an hour) out of Sheffield as far as Chesterfield Road South in the daytime. There are also evening/Sunday improvements to the 44 which is extended beyond Dronfield to Chesterfield. Also of course shouldn't overlook the improvements to the evening service out of Sheffield provided by the X17 which will run from Sheffield to Chesterfield limited stop via Heeley, Woodseats and Meadowhead hourly until 23:30 - currently the last bus from Sheffield Centre to Meadowhead on a Saturday night is a 75 at 23:08 for example. I've actually thought for a while that a Chesterfield to Sheffield via Abbeydale service would be useful. It's a popular area to visit yet you've got to go all the way in then back out to get there. If run via Dronfield it also offers an alternative shopping destination (Tesco) for locals there.
Also a missing link is via Eccleshall Road, although whether there is enough demand for direct rather than in and back out again I'm not sure. Our most common drive in to Sheffield other than work-related is to Sharrow Vale so a bus option would be nice. Sheffield Council seem intent on pushing people on to buses which, while no bad thing in itself, makes it difficult for those who live outside Sheffield as the bus links often are much slower.
Changing the 43/44 may work at the Sheffield end, it will mess things up at the Chesterfield end. The 20 minute timing was to give equal spacing through Unstone and down Prospect Road in Old Whittington. It'll now be 30/15/15, assuming the 44 keeps the same route as the 43. Personally, I think going through Sheepbridge and Dunson would make more sense, it'll be no slower then getting a bus in to Chesterfield then an X17 to Sheffield for anyone who lives there. It's actually becoming more and more evident that Chesterfield depot is being used to help give Sheffield a decent service, rather than those being incidental and Chesterfield itself being the main focus.
Personally, I think expanding the number of fast buses out of Sheffield is a better option rather than increasing the frequency of slow ones. If the 25/43 coordinated to give a 10 minute headway then there were extra services to complement the X17 to give one fast bus every 15 minutes that would serve most passengers better.
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Post by rothlad on Sept 15, 2023 15:25:31 GMT
43a to Lowedges is just a short working for a combined 15 minutes frequency between Meadow head and the city centre. As far as I'm aware it's just Monday-Saturday during the day. Personally I'd have thought a short 44 turning at Batemoor would make more sense but there must be a reason they've chosen Lowedges. What would make sense is for the PTE to chuck a bit of coin and and have it run Chancet Wood to Meadowhead and then commercially to Sheffield, getting rid of the 76A tender for probably a fraction of the cost 76A is tied in with a combined bid award, that includes services 5, 76A, 117 and X7. Sometimes what seems like an easy option isn't always as straightforward  |
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Post by rothlad on Sept 15, 2023 15:28:02 GMT
I think there is scope for extending the 218 from the city centre to Northern General Hospital clock tower and then Meadowhall. With so many services being done at NGH now, instead of RHH and Meadowhall essentially becoming the new city centre, with all of the good shops in town closing down a direct link to north east Sheffield would be useful and with Bakewell being a large town, could attract shoppers to Meadowhall. It has worked well with the X17 Matlock bus. Extend the running times to later in the evening and you can get the nightlife goers both ways too. Barnsley Road corridor is already over-bussed without adding further PVR into the mix. A vehicles operating costs are roughly around £285,000pa. This extension would require at least 2, possibly 3 additional vehicles - not to mention the fact how TM Travel are struggling at the moment in terms of operating what they currently run (staffing issues, delayed pay deal and 48 max o-licences). |
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Post by rothlad on Sept 15, 2023 15:31:08 GMT
Will this 25A be running up Derbyshire Lane and round the north eastern end of Graves' Park? Will it terminate in the city centre? I can't see Woodhouse needing ANOTHER bus service running there. The 25a replaces the Woodhouse end of the 25 and the Hemsworth end of the 20, evenings only Understand the reasoning behind the split of route was due to the NGH requiring a 60 minute headway, but Hemsworth requiring a 2hr headway due to being primarily residential. Thus it tied in nicely with the 25, which also required a 2hr headway. Unsure of the reasoning behind the 20A route around Parson Cross, but it makes more sense creating a large circular service, accessing more housing - especially as services 8 and 83 will be reduced in frequency. 1/83 provides co-ordinated hourly departures from Chapeltown and Arundel Gate. |
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meld
Driver
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Post by meld on Sept 15, 2023 21:55:52 GMT
If this 43a is coming from Chesterfield depot all well and good, but what if the service was to be run by Ecclesfield utilising the vehicles off the short running 1s, that would be a complete kick in the teeth for residents that use the 1 between City centre and Batemoor. If the evening 75s are reduced as well, with current service levels there would only be one bus an hour to Batemoor with the 44 providing a second bus every other hour. Why is Lowedge so special to warrant all these services ??
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Post by crossscythe on Sept 16, 2023 10:07:09 GMT
I think there is scope for extending the 218 from the city centre to Northern General Hospital clock tower and then Meadowhall. With so many services being done at NGH now, instead of RHH and Meadowhall essentially becoming the new city centre, with all of the good shops in town closing down a direct link to north east Sheffield would be useful and with Bakewell being a large town, could attract shoppers to Meadowhall. It has worked well with the X17 Matlock bus. Extend the running times to later in the evening and you can get the nightlife goers both ways too. Barnsley Road corridor is already over-bussed without adding further PVR into the mix. A vehicles operating costs are roughly around £285,000pa. This extension would require at least 2, possibly 3 additional vehicles - not to mention the fact how TM Travel are struggling at the moment in terms of operating what they currently run (staffing issues, delayed pay deal and 48 max o-licences). I would be happy to pay for it with my bus fare if they decided to extend it. Barnsley Road is always going to be busy as it is the main road to large areas like Chapeltown & Barnsley but it could run via Penistone Road and Herries Road. From what I understand, TM don't do PSV training, perhaps they could start with so many people on the unemployment line, people are crying out for jobs. If you live in the north of Sheffield, you have the 18, 95,95a and Yellow Supertram all taking you to Meadowhall but in the South West there is just the 65. Let's face it the city centre isn't up to much these days so most people go to Meadowhall. |
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