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Post by teapot42 on Apr 24, 2024 17:20:45 GMT
I do hate having 2 different companies operate the same route code but only one goes the full route e.g. to Halfway or Fulwood. It would have been better if First made the former 41 side of the route merge with the 42 and extend it to Fulwood to replace the 60. Ofcourse at the time of change, SYPTE were pushing for Optio Orange and wanted a sense of joint services so will have encouraged First to use the code 120. There could be scope to run a bus from Sheffield Interchange up the Parkway to the Mosborough turn off, to the Peaks, down Eckington Way, turn around at Eckington bus station and go across to Killamarsh and Spinkhill. I'd rather Oliver Coppard tendered that, along with Derbyshire Council, than the city clippers that cart fresh air around Trippet Lane all day. I vaguely remember there was something similar in Liverpool when I studied there, but where one operator ran a variation of a service they added a letter suffix. Harder with a three digit route number, but no real reason to stick with that. You do have to be careful to not cause confusion the other way by making people think a service is totally different when the core is the same of course.
This is one of the worst case of cross border problems I can think of. Yes, Killamarsh is in Derbyshire, but the peak flow will be in to Sheffield as anything worth visiting is much closer. DCC have shown they are prepared to do cross-border subsidy with things like the 257 so it's possible. They've also had BSIP money, whether any is left is another matter of course...
As an aside, I've wondered in the past whether a direct Chesterfield to Meadowhall service via Crystal Peaks and Boundary Mill would have legs. All three are destinations that would draw as many if not more pax outside of commuters.
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Post by crossscythe on Apr 24, 2024 17:35:24 GMT
I do hate having 2 different companies operate the same route code but only one goes the full route e.g. to Halfway or Fulwood. It would have been better if First made the former 41 side of the route merge with the 42 and extend it to Fulwood to replace the 60. Ofcourse at the time of change, SYPTE were pushing for Optio Orange and wanted a sense of joint services so will have encouraged First to use the code 120. There could be scope to run a bus from Sheffield Interchange up the Parkway to the Mosborough turn off, to the Peaks, down Eckington Way, turn around at Eckington bus station and go across to Killamarsh and Spinkhill. I'd rather Oliver Coppard tendered that, along with Derbyshire Council, than the city clippers that cart fresh air around Trippet Lane all day. I vaguely remember there was something similar in Liverpool when I studied there, but where one operator ran a variation of a service they added a letter suffix. Harder with a three digit route number, but no real reason to stick with that. You do have to be careful to not cause confusion the other way by making people think a service is totally different when the core is the same of course.
This is one of the worst case of cross border problems I can think of. Yes, Killamarsh is in Derbyshire, but the peak flow will be in to Sheffield as anything worth visiting is much closer. DCC have shown they are prepared to do cross-border subsidy with things like the 257 so it's possible. They've also had BSIP money, whether any is left is another matter of course...
As an aside, I've wondered in the past whether a direct Chesterfield to Meadowhall service via Crystal Peaks and Boundary Mill would have legs. All three are destinations that would draw as many if not more pax outside of commuters.
I think the cross border ticketing issue is something Killamarash/Eckington passengers will just have to grin and bear. They have their own local schemes within their county boundaries, such as B Line and Derbyshire Wayfarer. I am on the other end of the spectrum, the border of Derbyshire is near to where I live and I accept that if I head west to the Peak District, I won't get the South Yorkshire initiatives, but if I head east towards city centre, Rotherham & Doncaster, I can enjoy some great schemes. It's swings and round abouts. The main priority is getting a decent bus service to Killamarsh and Eckington that connects with Sheffield. I like your idea about a direct bus from Crystal Peaks to Meadowhall. Up until about 13 years ago, there used to be a number 1 and 2 that did just that and even continued to Hillsborough, using Wright Liberators mostly. |
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Post by crossscythe on Apr 24, 2024 18:03:18 GMT
Another route that I reckon would do well would be from Bents Green to Meadowhall, via Hunter's Bar, Hallamshire Hospital, Broomhill, Upperthorpe and Northern General.
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Post by teapot42 on Apr 24, 2024 18:49:15 GMT
It's a shame Chesterfield council let the Derbyshire Tories bully them in to pulling out of the South Yorks authority - we have much stronger links with Sheffield than anywhere else but are being put in to an East Midlands authority instead which will probably give us very little as we are so far out on a limb. Had we joined I'm sure the ticketing issue would have been resolved.
Whether there is scope to work together still I don't know. The Wayfarer for instance is valid in to Sheffield, but only direct in to the city centre, so it's of little use to many. It's also a lot more expensive than the Sheffield-specific passes. Your issue is likely part of the reason why Stagecoach won't accept Wayfarers on the Peak Sightseer buses. Anyone coming from Sheffield to use them won't be contributing to their coffers. I wonder if it gets changed to revenue being shared rather than sitting where it is taken that this might change. Personally, I'd prefer to see a range of Wayfarer tickets, now Hulleys are taking over more of Chesterfield you get the issue where a single operator ticket is no longer as valuable, but the only combined operator one is expensive.
Maybe having Chesterfield and surrounding area, one covering the West of Derbyshire (Buxton, New Mills, Glossop), a Wayfarer Plus (or two) which allow travel within neighbouring authorities as well... There used to be a ticket in the North East called the Explorer which was valid pretty much from Whitby right up to Berwick. A family version of that could make a lot of difference to whether using public transport to access the Peak District is viable.
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Post by alemaster on Apr 24, 2024 19:01:26 GMT
I vaguely remember there was something similar in Liverpool when I studied there, but where one operator ran a variation of a service they added a letter suffix. Harder with a three digit route number, but no real reason to stick with that. You do have to be careful to not cause confusion the other way by making people think a service is totally different when the core is the same of course. This is one of the worst case of cross border problems I can think of. Yes, Killamarsh is in Derbyshire, but the peak flow will be in to Sheffield as anything worth visiting is much closer. DCC have shown they are prepared to do cross-border subsidy with things like the 257 so it's possible. They've also had BSIP money, whether any is left is another matter of course...
As an aside, I've wondered in the past whether a direct Chesterfield to Meadowhall service via Crystal Peaks and Boundary Mill would have legs. All three are destinations that would draw as many if not more pax outside of commuters.
I think the cross border ticketing issue is something Killamarash/Eckington passengers will just have to grin and bear. They have their own local schemes within their county boundaries, such as B Line and Derbyshire Wayfarer. I am on the other end of the spectrum, the border of Derbyshire is near to where I live and I accept that if I head west to the Peak District, I won't get the South Yorkshire initiatives, but if I head east towards city centre, Rotherham & Doncaster, I can enjoy some great schemes. It's swings and round abouts. The main priority is getting a decent bus service to Killamarsh and Eckington that connects with Sheffield. I like your idea about a direct bus from Crystal Peaks to Meadowhall. Up until about 13 years ago, there used to be a number 1 and 2 that did just that and even continued to Hillsborough, using Wright Liberators mostly. The South Yorkshire Travelmaster tickets do actually include Killamarsh and Eckington due to a geographical quirk of buses such as 252 and 26/26a passing through them to get from one bit of South Yorkshire to another |
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Post by alemaster on Apr 24, 2024 19:02:38 GMT
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Post by alemaster on Apr 24, 2024 19:07:22 GMT
It's a shame Chesterfield council let the Derbyshire Tories bully them in to pulling out of the South Yorks authority - we have much stronger links with Sheffield than anywhere else but are being put in to an East Midlands authority instead which will probably give us very little as we are so far out on a limb. Had we joined I'm sure the ticketing issue would have been resolved. Whether there is scope to work together still I don't know. The Wayfarer for instance is valid in to Sheffield, but only direct in to the city centre, so it's of little use to many. It's also a lot more expensive than the Sheffield-specific passes. Your issue is likely part of the reason why Stagecoach won't accept Wayfarers on the Peak Sightseer buses. Anyone coming from Sheffield to use them won't be contributing to their coffers. I wonder if it gets changed to revenue being shared rather than sitting where it is taken that this might change. Personally, I'd prefer to see a range of Wayfarer tickets, now Hulleys are taking over more of Chesterfield you get the issue where a single operator ticket is no longer as valuable, but the only combined operator one is expensive. Maybe having Chesterfield and surrounding area, one covering the West of Derbyshire (Buxton, New Mills, Glossop), a Wayfarer Plus (or two) which allow travel within neighbouring authorities as well... There used to be a ticket in the North East called the Explorer which was valid pretty much from Whitby right up to Berwick. A family version of that could make a lot of difference to whether using public transport to access the Peak District is viable. Part of the Derbyshire bus service improvement plan package has been to develop the Wayfarer ticket range. Bus only versions have been introduced with 1 day and 7 day passes available. There are ambitions to also roll out cheaper versions for individual towns. www.sytravelmaster.com/derbyshire |
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Post by teapot42 on Apr 24, 2024 19:25:31 GMT
Part of the Derbyshire bus service improvement plan package has been to develop the Wayfarer ticket range. Bus only versions have been introduced with 1 day and 7 day passes available. There are ambitions to also roll out cheaper versions for individual towns. www.sytravelmaster.com/derbyshireInteresting to know. At the moment they are of limited use unless you are doing a long journey, at least to us in Chesterfield. The Stagecoach tickets are cheaper and cover a more useful area, and the £2 fare works better in many cases anyway. However, depending what happens with the £2 fare that may change. For me it really needs better cross-border validity, even if that comes with a slightly higher price. |
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Post by alemaster on Apr 25, 2024 12:58:08 GMT
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Post by alemaster on Apr 25, 2024 13:01:10 GMT
It's a shame Chesterfield council let the Derbyshire Tories bully them in to pulling out of the South Yorks authority - we have much stronger links with Sheffield than anywhere else but are being put in to an East Midlands authority instead which will probably give us very little as we are so far out on a limb. Had we joined I'm sure the ticketing issue would have been resolved. Whether there is scope to work together still I don't know. The Wayfarer for instance is valid in to Sheffield, but only direct in to the city centre, so it's of little use to many. It's also a lot more expensive than the Sheffield-specific passes. Your issue is likely part of the reason why Stagecoach won't accept Wayfarers on the Peak Sightseer buses. Anyone coming from Sheffield to use them won't be contributing to their coffers. I wonder if it gets changed to revenue being shared rather than sitting where it is taken that this might change. Personally, I'd prefer to see a range of Wayfarer tickets, now Hulleys are taking over more of Chesterfield you get the issue where a single operator ticket is no longer as valuable, but the only combined operator one is expensive. Maybe having Chesterfield and surrounding area, one covering the West of Derbyshire (Buxton, New Mills, Glossop), a Wayfarer Plus (or two) which allow travel within neighbouring authorities as well... There used to be a ticket in the North East called the Explorer which was valid pretty much from Whitby right up to Berwick. A family version of that could make a lot of difference to whether using public transport to access the Peak District is viable. The election for the new East Midlands Metro Mayor takes place in May and presumably as in South Yorkshire this organisation will take over responsibility for public transport from the councils. Will be interesting to see how things develop, including the attitude towards cross border services. |
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Post by alemaster on Apr 25, 2024 16:23:36 GMT
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Post by teapot42 on Apr 25, 2024 20:15:41 GMT
Interesting that there are quite a few dead workings involved with that, and the ones that aren't spend 20-30 minutes at Norwood. Got to wonder why they weren't extended to the Spinkhill turning circle as a more obvious turning point. |
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Post by teapot42 on Apr 25, 2024 20:24:42 GMT
Also the revised 84/170 timetable. There are some big gaps in the Holymoorside service now, 1h40 in the morning and 1h25 in the afternoon. Oddly there doesn't seem to be an 84 to LMS, and the 170 runs via Old Brampton. I'm sure that was an issue in the past (and I know there are quite a few pupils who live in Walton / Somersall as I often see them getting off the bus and walking this way) so that seems an odd omission.
The Peak Sightseer appears to be four vehicles this year, a doubling from last. Two on the Red and two on the Blue, and presumably one spare. Certainly a lot of padding in the timetable compared to previous and the Breezer, so hopefully timekeeping will be improved and they can maybe even drive a bit slower.
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Post by TC60054 on Apr 26, 2024 0:13:10 GMT
Interesting that there are quite a few dead workings involved with that, and the ones that aren't spend 20-30 minutes at Norwood. Got to wonder why they weren't extended to the Spinkhill turning circle as a more obvious turning point. Would make sense. As it is, services are turning left onto Rotherham Road and then doing a loop of Norwood Crescent to turn around - not sure where we're meant to wait time though...... |
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Post by crossscythe on Apr 26, 2024 7:46:40 GMT
Not just a rumour then re First 120. Interesting. I don't think First have ever ran a cross city service that ends in a different county before. And on somewhat a flagship service too. Well done to First for improving connectivity. They won't be getting SYMCA subsidy for this, as it's Derbyshire. Good on them for improving services for passengers and expanding their market.
I've often wondered if some 272 journeys could be extended to Edale, at key times. The driver could still use the toilet facilities at Castleton given the good padding in the layover there. Just a thought.
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